The following is a transcript of this episode. It has been edited for clarity.
Intro: Are you dreaming big this year? Are you looking to fuel your life with joy, creativity and enriching new experiences? Then stay right here, because my guest on today’s episode of the More Beautiful podcast is Peloton and iFIT trainer Nicole Meline, who is also a writer, teacher and creator of the Alter movement. We talk about why a stronger body dreams bigger, how to tell if you’re truly on your life’s path, why joy often emerges from the most disappointing, devastating events and how doing your heart’s work inevitably draws your heart’s people. Welcome to More Beautiful, the podcast for women rewriting the midlife playbook. I’m Maryann LoRusso, and I invite you to join me and a guest each week as we strive for a life that’s more adventurous, more fulfilling, and more beautiful than ever before.
Maryann: Welcome back to the More Beautiful podcast. Today’s guest, zooming with me from beautiful Santa Fe, is the lovely Nicole Meline. Nicole is an author, a mentor, a fitness expert and a consultant and the founder of the Alter movement and podcast. Welcome, Nicole, and please tell me if I left anything out. You do so much.
Nicole: Thank you so much. I’m so happy to be here, and I love the mission of this community, so I’m so happy to be part of the conversation.
Maryann: We are so, so happy to have you here. Nicole, you are a four time Ironman triathlete with four master’s degrees. And at one point you lived in New York and you taught writing at Columbia, you were a Peloton founding master instructor, you now live in gorgeous New Mexico where you create imaginative and inclusive wellness experiences for people, you’re also a poet, as anyone who has been on your Instagram page knows, and my first encounter with you was on iFIT last year, when you whipped my butt into shape physically and spiritually with your trail running series—so, thank you for that. But I would love to know more about your journey from New York to New Mexico. Just fill us in.
Nicole: Oh, yeah. Well, you know, we just started a new year. And I’ve been thinking about what is my elevator pitch, which is actually a challenge I love to give everybody. We’re all in business in creativity, and that takes all different forms for all of us. But I thought recently that my current kind of way that I sum up what I do is to help people create a mental and physical state that supports their bravest dreams. And even more than mentalist, spiritual state, right, that supports our bravest dreams. So that’s kind of the banner over everything that I do, and it’s taken a lot of different forms over the years. I think that a real theme in my life, which I think is probably a point of connection for a woman who is just thinking about her next chapter—which I think a lot of your audience is our audience, definitely my community as well—is to understand that we have callings in our life, like we have lifelong callings. And that takes different forms. So we have this core essence, but that takes different forms over the course of our lives. So I have a core essence of healer, and I have a core essence of teacher and I have core essence of inspirer. And one of the great journeys of my life—and it feels so exciting to be here at this moment—is to realize that the containers for the expression of these essences are changing to greater authenticity. So you know, one of the revolutions of the internet and of social media is that the gatekeepers, who have been old white males… [Laughs]
Maryann: Let’s just say it like it is.
Nicole: Yeah. They’re less and less and less relevant. And so if you have something to say, if you have something to create, if you have some way that you want to create it that’s weird, and it doesn’t fit into the containers that you’ve maybe seen on offer, that is possible now in a way that’s never been before. So my journey in a lot of ways has been from, like, conventional containers of academia—I was on a medical school track for seven years—even in kind of fitness and movement practices to allow all of those essences to evolve to an authentic and funky container that is my own.
Maryann: I love it. Yeah. And I love that you mentioned that, that we have some many factors, so many facets to us, and the fact that you’re kind of combining them and they’re evolving and changing and growing is so exciting. And I know so many women who are also finding themselves on that part of their journey.
Nicole: Yes, yeah, I think that, like I said, that there’s never been such a time that you can combine your passions in a way you’ve never seen before and put it out there, and your people will find you. One of my favorite mantras that I live in is that our heart’s work leads us to our heart’s people, like this conversation is, right?
Maryann: I love that.
Nicole: Yeah. And so, you know, I especially want to encourage our audience just at this moment, you know, at a year’s beginning, whatever it is, even if you’ve never seen it before, even if you’re not sure if it could be done in this way, do it. Do it, do it, do it, because the doing is going to nourish your soul, but it’s also going to lead you to your people.
Maryann: Right. And one of the facets of Nicole Meline is poetry, right? And it fuses so much of what you do, from your social media, to your motivational words during your workout sessions. Have you always been enamored with the written word? And what kind of relationship do you have with poetry?
Nicole: Yeah. Let’s see, I’m gonna go way back. I grew up in a spiritual culture that was super conservative and super text driven. And there were a lot of imprisonments, you know, to that culture. There were a lot of limitations to that culture that I had to work my way out of, but one of the great gifts was this elevation of a text, this falling in love with a text, a text that has a kind of spiritual authority. And so that is deep in my DNA. And I think that poetry is a mode, you know, in many different genres. Like, the poetic happens in drama or the poetic happens in prose, the poetic happens in speaking, but we know when it happens, because we feel it in our body. And the best way that I’ve heard poetry described, like, how is poetry different from prose, is that poetry is a moment where language becomes opaque instead of transparent. So it’s a moment where instead of seeing things through language, we actually see language itself. And we notice the texture of a word and where it’s placed on a page and how it rhymes with what else is going on. And so I think poetry for me, one of the reasons I love it, is that it’s this moment where text meets body. It’s sensory, right, you can feel a poem on your skin, it does things to your breath rate, it does things to your heart, maybe the temperature of your body. And so yeah, I think that when I think about speaking, which is, you know, it’s one of our most important tools, as much as I can I want to be in the mode of the poetic. Even going back to like the Greek and Roman ideas of poetry, 2000 years old, it was always understood that the poets were in connection to spirits. That there was a spiritual channel, you know, that opened up in poetry. So, yeah, I can go on and on about this.
Maryann: I was gonna say, this conversation is textual. We could have like 10 conversations based off of what you’ve just said. I don’t know if you’ve ever done the Five Love Languages test, because I’m a words person for sure. So like, words make me feel so much. It sounds like you might be one, too.
Nicole: Sure. Yes, yeah. Words of affirmation, for sure.
Maryann: Yeah. I mean, you also talk a lot about the mind body connection. And I’d love to read something from your website that is so incredible. You wrote, I believe in reinvention, second, and 70th acts, late bloomers, and the underdog. In the power of spirit and movement and revelatory stillness, that we are made to move and be moved in ways that astonish us lifelong, that physical movement can be spiritually seismic, breath and sweat are doorways to the heart, noise cancelling headphones for the symphony of our DNA. Nicole, that’s so beautiful. When is your book coming out?
Nicole: [Laughs]
Maryann: I mean, if that doesn’t make everybody want to get out there and move and live, I don’t know what will. Have you always felt this strong connection—I mean, you kind of touched on this earlier—between the spiritual and the physical?
Nicole: Yes. I think that all of my greatest ideas have come when I’m moving. I’m usually out on a run, or out on a hike, or on the bike. And I think that the reason for that, the way that I put it is that a strong body dreams bigger. And so when you’re moving…and I don’t like to think of it as in shape or out of shape, I like to think of it as in practice or out of practice. You’re not out of shape, you’re out of practice. And we’re always returning to the practice. But hang on, Everest is gnawing on my chair.
Maryann: We should mention Nicole has the cutest rescue dog named Everest. He is also featured prominently in Instagram. [Laughs]
Nicole: [Laughs] He’s the star of my Instagram, yeah. Yes, so when we’re moving, you know, when you move vigorously, and again, whether or not you’re quote unquote in shape or out of shape, when you move vigorously, you change the chemistry of your body. You send more oxygen to your brain. So like biomechanically, of course, you’re going to dream bigger, of course, you’re going to have fresh thoughts and new ideas. Because you’ve shaken up the chemistry of your body. And for most of us, we’re either clear on what our purpose is, and clear on our work and what we’re doing, but sometimes in the practices around it, we can get stale. Or we’re not clear on what our purpose is or what we’re doing, and we need clarity, we need epiphany, we need those lightning bolts of vision. So whether it is in what we’re doing, or in why and how we’re doing it, we’re always in need of that kind of revelatory moment, right? And so when we move, I’m saying with my body, I’m saying with this vessel that I live in, I’m open. Like, I’m open to a new way.
Maryann: What is he doing over there?
Nicole: [Laughs] Of course, he’s found a box.
Maryann: [Laughs] Oh, so cute. He’s having a good time with whatever you gave him.
Nicole: OK. So, yeah, I think that I move not because I want to lose weight, not because I want to look a certain way because some old white dude has decided I should look like that, I move because I have big dreams. And I need to be clear on what those are, and I need to be clear on how and why I’m executing them. So I come to breath and sweat every day to remember my vitality and to connect with spirit. So yeah, I want to throw that out there, because I think that that is an invitation that maybe we haven’t had, right? Culturally?
Maryann: I find it very fresh, because I think I told you that I’ve done your Montana running series dozens of times. I kept trying new trainers and kept going back to you. My husband was like, how many times are you going to do Nicole Meline’s workout? Because it was the only thing that was truly resonating with me. I found your style of instruction to be very compassionate, spiritual, such a gift, especially during the pandemic. I mean, where did you find yourself during that time? And were you aware that you were helping so many people through such a hard time?
Nicole: Ugh, the pandemic. My favorite words about the pandemic are by one of my great teachers, Rob Bell. And he said, like, how are you doing in this pandemic? Well, how did the last pandemic go? And just kind of just illustrating that, hi, we’ve never done this before. We’ve never been through this kind of trauma and challenge and fear before. And yeah, this has been a monumental time. The phrase that came to my mind over the first few weeks of it—and I was in Brooklyn, in New York, so I was right in the epicenter of whatever this crazy thing that was happening was, and it was super scary—the phrase that kept coming to my mind was, this is the spiritual Olympics. You’ve been training for this. I had the tools for it, and I also had tools that could be of service at this time. So I was living by myself in New York, as I had been for 11 years. And you had a lot of fear those first few months. And interestingly—and this ended up being such a gift, untimately. I was launching this course called Weighty that I had been creating for over a year. And I launched it on March 10, and the course began on March 15. And over the week of that launch, you know, this is 2020, like I just watched the world start to shut down. And I remember the schools were canceled and all of these, you know, announcements were coming out about national sports programs being canceled, and I think we all started to realize that this was going to be a big and possibly long situation. And so here I was launching this course that was about…Weighty is a 28-day journey to revolutionize your relationship to weight and food. And I put it that way, because to revolutionize our relationship to weight, because a big part of this program is really mindset reset, and it is embracing our weightiness in the world. And so kind of starting with that…like, whether or not I want to lose weight is a question connected to my health and vitality, or maybe gain weight, right? But what I do know is that I want to weigh in on the world, like I want to be a woman of weightiness, of weighty presence. And so then the question is, how do I fuel that? Like, how do I fuel my creative work? So in some ways, I remember I was launching this course and feeling like, is this the thing that is needed at this moment? Or is this, you know, is this what we should be focusing on right now? And it ended up being this incredible container. It’s a live program, so there’s a whole community element to it, and it ended up being this communal container to go through this really scary time together. And of course, especially if you are an emotional eater, as I have been at different times, all of us, you know, within like a few days after we kind of absorb what’s going on, we’re having all kinds of maybe disordered relationships to food. So it actually became, I think, a really powerful structure for folks to go through. So Weighty was really my work during the first few months of COVID. And about five months into quarantining by myself in my increasingly tiny apartment…
Maryann: That is hard.
Nicole: [Laughs] Yeah, I’d been thinking about moving west, I’d been searching different places, mostly up in Montana. And I just decided I’m going to do a road trip through the West and look for a home.
Maryann: Oh, that’s how you landed in Santa Fe.
Nicole: Yeah, yeah.
Maryann: I didn’t know it was so recent. But you know, as you’re describing, the pandemic, in the early days, all I keep thinking about is people running to the grocery store to buy, to hoard, right? It was such an uncertain time. And making sourdough bread, and baking. And, I mean…
Nicole: Yeah, food has been a big part of it.
Maryann: Totally. You know, the mantras you spoke of earlier, that’s one thing that I found most inspiring about your workouts. You know, you telling us, heart open! And one of my favorites is, your body was made for this intensity, you know, as I’m climbing a hill and struggling to get up that hill. And it just helped me so much. I mean, do you do mantras yourself when you’re exercising?
Nicole: I do. And I want to share this story of the word mantra. So how this like word or idea came to be. It’s an old Sanskrit word, you know, an old Indian word. And the story in Indian mythology is the beautiful goddess Lakshmi was lost, she got lost into this kind of, like, stew of yuck. And another god, Shiva, in order to find her, he started to inhale all of the big muck that she was in and he started to like, sip it into his mouth.
Maryann: What an image.
Nicole: What an image, right? And he goes through this alchemizing process of turning this, like, mucky pond, as he inhales it, into beauty. And it’s that process, that process of transformation, that is called mantra. He made a bit of a mantra. He inhaled all this growth stuff. And then he sings, he sings this beauty out of it. And that’s what allows him to find this lost goddess of beauty, Lakshmi. And so we know that the power of intentionally chosen words have this transformative effect on, I think, everything. Not just ourselves, our whole entire environment. So one of my creations is this envision planner, which is a day planner with a lot of magic infused into it. And the first invitation that I asked folks to engage each day is to just write a mantra for the day. Just a mantra for the day. Even if it’s one word, just choosing that one word, or choosing a phrase that you’re gonna come back to over and over that day. There’s a power to that. There’s a transformative power to that. And I mean, even if it’s kind of the simplest tool that you can give yourself, if you’re in a moment of tension, frustration, you know, you’re just not showing up at your best self, and just to remember that mantra, just to hook into that mantra and let it call you into your best self. So when I’m teaching, a lot of what I am doing, when I’m leading a workout, is just giving you a bunch of mantras that you can hopefully kind of pick and choose the one that’s really gonna spark you. And there’s such a power there.
Maryann: I agree. I did a course on transcendental meditation a few years ago, and you know, you get assigned a mantra. And I can use that baby just to calm me down in 10 seconds flat, you know, just the thought of the mantra actually calms me down.
Nicole: It’s incredible, right? Especially if you’ve used it in meditation. The same thing, you know, is true of scent. Like if we defuse or burn or introduce a certain scent into that moment of meditation where we’re at our most settled and peaceful, then that scent can bring us right back to it. Or that mantra can bring us right back to it. It’s so powerful.
Maryann: Yeah. Oh, wow, I’m going to try the scent thing later. Well, you know, your instructional repertoire includes so much. You do yoga, meditation, cycling, running, hiking. Do you have a favorite to teach and practice? And do these activities have more in common than we would think?
Nicole: My favorite favorite is the Alter Mat practice that I’ve created, which is just a cocktail of all of the practices that I’ve loved over the years. So that’s kind of the short answer. The long answer is, no. I mean, you had a wonderful question you asked me. You were asking about what I would say is training for longevity. And so I’ve done Ironman, and I’ve done, you know, races of all different kinds. And I was a competitive swimmer, through college. So I’ve been in that mode of hustle, and in that mode of training for performance, and I’ve also been in that mode of training for acceptance, right? Like training to get a body that’s maybe not even necessarily what mine is meant to be, but it’s what I think maybe the world wants it to be, or will accept it as or something. I think many of us have been in that mode before. And it is such a powerful and liberating mode that I’m in now, which is to train for longevity and to train for spiritual ignition. So I challenge you, especially now…I’m so excited to be having this conversation the beginning of the year, because I think we can kind of fall into some almost punishing, or, you know, just negatively driven workout routines, or kind of like very radical resets for our wellness at this time of year. We can be marketed that, at the very least. And so what I would love to invite you to, all of our audience, is to ask yourself, how would you train…OK, let’s back up for a second. What is an audacious goal that you would love to do at 90? Like how do you want to be able to move your body at 90? Do you want to be able to climb a mountain? Do you want to be able to run three miles? Do you want to be able to run a marathon? Do you want to be doing yoga? What is it that you want to be doing at 90? And I kind of collect women on social media who are examples of this, because it is possible to run a marathon at 90.
Maryann: I’ve seen it, yeah.
Nicole: So with that in mind, how would you train now? And for me, that’s going to mean more yoga, more stretching, more low impact activities to balance some of the high impact. It’s going to mean more time in the kind of like sustainable…if we think of an effort scale on zero to 10, more time in that like four to six range, that’s just like building that aerobic engine that I’m going to have lifelong. So that’s a really exciting way for me to think about training and leading, especially women, to train. It’s like, OK, yeah, we know what our short term goals are for this year. That’s important to have. But also did those short term goals align with the way that we want to be able to move at 90, or are they actually going to beat us up so much that our bodies are not going to be able to move, you know, in this way that we want them to.
Maryann: Yeah, that part of your instruction with the running series was life changing for me. I think I told you I’ve been a runner for decades, but you were the first person who ever taught me to focus on my breath while running. And as I get older, yeah, I find that pushing myself to do high intensity workouts now backfires, especially when you’re in that perimenopause stage. So your encouragement to stay in an endurance zone of like five to six, the place I think you said where the parasympathetic nervous system is being engaged, it was just life changing. And I’m not sure why people don’t tell you that. I mean, it seems like there’s only one type of workout, and it’s for all ages, and nobody focuses on life stage when they’re teaching.
Nicole: Or cycles of all kinds. Yeah, it’s so true. And a lot of workouts actually can cause more stress to the body. Like, if you’re doing the same kind of workout every day, or six days a week or something, it can actually be raising your body’s cortisol level, your stress, it can be giving all of these signals to your body that you’re in stress. So that tells the body, OK, store fat, don’t burn it, because we’re in stress. You know, maybe you’re not sleeping as well, because your body is being told that you’re in this kind of high alert crisis mode. There is a happy medium, you know, of high intensity intervals. They’re so important, but I think it’s like to learn how to mindfully use them and when to be engaging them. And I really believe in phasing, workout phasing. So you’re kind of moving through different phases and periodization—a whole other conversation, but it’s one we’re not having enough of.
Maryann: During one of your workouts, you tell a story—I will never forget this—of an accident that you had on your bike right before a big event in France, right? Which leads into an amazing philosophy that the swerves are where the joy is. And I wrote that down. I swear to God, I wrote that down. It was so good. That story resonated so much with me. Can you tell our listeners what happened and what you learned from it?
Nicole: Oh, yes. OK, so the kind of broad strokes…I was training for my second Ironman, and my first Ironman, which I had done in Spain, was just kind of a, I don’t know, can I do this? And training for my first Ironman, I wasn’t even sure if I could finish it. And amazingly, I had a great race. And so when it came time, I decided I wanted to do another one. And I wanted to go for it. I wanted to train like I meant it. And I was just like, how fast can I go? What’s my personal best in this distance? And so I trained for six months, and the weekend before the race, I took my bike out for one last ride. And it wasn’t even a training ride. I didn’t even need to do it. I just wanted to make sure everything felt good before I packed it up. And you know, the race was in France, and I was leaving from New York. And so it was a crowded holiday weekend on the bike path, and this little girl just rides her pink bike, like, horizontal into the bike lane. And there was nothing. I couldn’t go around her, I just had to hit the brakes. And I went over the handlebars, and I landed on my shoulder and separated the shoulder…and it was the most intense injury that I’ve ever had. And I knew immediately that I wasn’t going to be racing. And, of course, it was devastating. Also, I was teaching, at the time, at Peloton. And so it also meant that I wasn’t working for several months. And I didn’t know what any of this meant. Like, I didn’t know if this was going to heal, how it was going to heal. I was a swimmer growing up and had always loved to swim. And so, you know, was I gonna be able to swim again? All of it. Could I do a down dog in yoga?
Maryann: Right. So much uncertainty.
Nicole: Yeah, could I put my hair up ever again? [Laughs] So I was pretty immobilized for about two and a half months. And I just decided to simply ask the question—like, I wasn’t yet in a positive enough place to just decide that this was going to be a gift, but to simply ask the question, how could this be a gift? And how could this be a gift? What could this open doors to that I wouldn’t have walked through otherwise? And it was through that time, as is true for so many of us when we’re laid up in whatever way, that I started a meditation practice that I’d never started before, I was writing, I discovered so many teachers that I had not heard of that have been so important to me. And sure enough, that time became an incredibly powerful spiritual portal that I can’t imagine not having had and doing many of the things that I’ve done and created now. And it was a swerve, right? It was an unexpected course. And I think oftentimes, when we have a goal, we can be so fixated on that goal that the process can become as much about shifting us into a place of disappointment and failure than maybe full complete success, right? But when we just shift our perspective…I always think we’re dreaming big enough when we have to grow into that dream, when the person that we are has to uplevel in some way to be able to accomplish this dream. But that being said, we should dream very, very big, we should dream way beyond our current limitations. But oftentimes, whatever the end goal is, sometimes we’re given that, I think, by spirit, because it’s going to be as much about the process and the journey as it is about the final destination. So I thought that my true Ironman training journey was going to be about crossing the finish line at this race, which sidenote, I actually did come back and do two years later, because spirits and on it. But really, this journey was this Ironman of the spirit, this Ironman of the heart that I, you know, ended up going through because of this whole process. And so, I heard a woman telling a fertility story this morning that was very similar, you know, when she opened her heart to the possibility that this clear call to motherhood could have a much broader application than she may have imagined. And for her, it’s leading to adoption in a way that’s bringing her family so much joy and so much peace. And you know, so I think I just kind of throw that out. Because all of us, and especially coming out of 2021, all of us have goals, we have clarity, we have purpose. And also there will be swerves, and also those swerves will be our teacher.
Maryann: That’s right. Because you are human, how long did it take you to get from that, you know, feeling sorry for yourself, so scared and uncertain, to this kind of clarity? I mean, it’s a process, right? We don’t all feel it immediately.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. I think that one of my favorite prayers was just, help. But the longer version of that is, I’m open to another way of seeing this. I’m open to another way, I’m open to another idea. And so, you know, sometimes we can’t get to the place of, oh, thank you for this devastating loss, right? But we can, you know, we can maybe just whisper that tiny prayer of, I’m open to another way of seeing this, or I’m open to what this closed door is going to keep me from, or I’m open to what this other door is going to bring in, that I didn’t imagine. So I love…I mean, kind of bringing it back to poetry, Emily Dickinson, who’s one of our great feminist heroine. One of her lines has been so important to me. She just says dwell in possibility. I dwell in possibility. What a powerful mantra, you know? Just say over whatever disappointment we might be in the midst of, I dwell in possibility.
Maryann: I love that. I dwell in possibility. Yeah. And is that something you focus on in your Alter community? You create these amazing experiences for people, retreats, workshops, digital courses, and it seems like you invite people to come and embody themselves fully, right? And you talk about crafting a line of joyful creativity. What happens during those experiences and what do you want people to come away with?
Nicole: Oh, Alter, Alter, yes. So the word alter came to me a few years ago, as I realized I was kind of becoming this unexpected and untrained entrepreneur and I realized that the containers for what I wanted to do didn’t exist yet, so I was going to have to create them. And so I started to create a style of teaching, a movement practice that was a fusion of yoga and ecstatic dance and strength training and meditation, but then also a style of teaching on the bike that really guides people into their hearts. And so there wasn’t maybe the platform to perfectly fit this. So I was, you know, I was just kind of asking like, what is this thing? Like, what is the name for this? And the word Alter came to me like a lightning bolt. And not right away, it was a bit of time of asking that question. Like, one of my favorite questions in the world is, what does this want to become? So I was asking that for a while, and my first question—and it’s always really fun whenever anybody asks—is it Alter with an E or Alter with an A? And I knew it was Alter with an E, because that feels like a broader door, and it feels, I think, more hospitable to folks who are allergic to spirituality in certain forms. [Laughs] But I love that Alter with an E rings with Altar with an A, right? So right, that our altering, our like intentional change and growth, is a spiritual practice, it is a sacred offering. And one of the most beautiful lines from this amazing book, The Alchemist, is that when we are aligned with our highest intentions, the universe conspires to support us. So that when you decide to change, make a change, whether it’s a tiny little micro change, or change your whole life, or your whole work or whatever, you’re aligning with your highest intentions. And that is a sacred offering. That is Altar with an A, right? Yeah, you’re making that journey to a change, a sacred journey. So I offer these two movement practices both on the mat, zero equipment needed, just your body, and on the bike, if you have one. And so that’s the Alter movement practice. But Alter has also become this ecosystem of experiences and gatherings as well. And I’m just kind of restarting to offer some of these in our COVID world in ways that are safe. Yeah, I have a retreat to Tulum coming up, and hopefully some more on the calendar soon.
Maryann: Yeah. I have to just backpedal to one thing you said earlier in this. You mentioned ecstatic dancing. Please tell me what that is, it sounds so incredible.
Nicole: Yeah, so I’ve never thought of myself as a dancer—or I’ve thought of myself as an awkward dancer, or not a very good dancer. But I love to move to music, I know that. And so there’s a kind of tradition of ecstatic dance that is very, very old. I was actually just talking yesterday with a friend about the Sufis. Yeah, they were the 14th century mystics, and we would now call what they did ecstatic dance. The word ecstasy has the prefix “ex” in it, right, like, exit, to take leave of. So yeah, and of course, anytime any kind of an ecstatic experience is…it’s stepping out of one realm, or at least letting in another, right? And so I think that, I mean, in my experience, I want to have daily ecstasy. [Laughs]
Maryann: It sounds like a great goal for all of us.
Nicole: Yeah. We step outside of our kind of practical to do list-driven life for a moment to just play. And whether that’s a meditation practice or an alter, I, you know, kind of bring in all of it. But it’s intentionally short, you know, most of these practices are under 45 minutes. So it’s a workout that’s going to get you moving and all the ways and also, I think, really importantly, the ecstatic dance element, I usually say something like, move like yourself. And that, for me, is different every day. But it’s an invitation to, first of all, I think so importantly, to discharge whatever physical trauma that I’ve been carrying around from the last 24 hours. Maybe some rage, maybe some frustration, maybe some grief, maybe some joy, to actually let my body express all of that, so I’m not just carrying it around, and to give me a chance to decide whether or not I want to take leave of it, get it out. Right? Or like, absorb it and live in it. So that’s yeah, that’s kind of ecstatic dance, I guess, in a nutshell. But that along with meditation, I think, are these two practices of play and stillness that take us out of this productivity driven, you know, value based on performance. And just give us a chance to, you know, I always I’d like to say something like, how does three year old you want you to dance right now?
Maryann: Three year old us wants us to just do anything that comes into our mind, you know? I mean, that childhood joy is so incredible. Why do we lose that? And you mentioned play, like, play is such a big thing that so many of us are missing in our daily lives, right? How can we get back to that?
Nicole: The practice of play. I want to invite myself and all of us into that. I think about how rare and how much of an extraordinary gift it is, to meet anyone in our everyday life who’s in a mode of play. And I think also, especially with us all wearing masks as we’re encountering each other now, it’s that much harder to feel the connection. One thing that I’ve noticed—which makes perfect sense, you know, given a pandemic—is that people are lingering less, right? Like if you go inside, if you go to do grocery shopping, or you go to a coffee shop or something, there’s just less lingering. There’s less kind of like turning to the person behind you in line and chit chatting, or…
Maryann: It’s so true. It’s so sad. And I was thinking about babies. I got into an elevator the other day and I saw this little baby in a stroller, looked up at me and everybody else in the elevator, and all I could think about was how they’re not seeing anyone smile anymore. And we probably have a whole generation that’s going to know how to read eyes really well.
Nicole: I love that way of thinking about it, yeah. Yeah, but now all the more so, when I encounter someone who plays with me—like somebody in the checkout line who’s actually dropped in, like they’re present to that moment, they’re not distracted, and they’re looking around at the people who are actually around them, and they wink at you or they say something funny about, you know, the fifth tin of cookies that you’re putting on, and they play with you.
Maryann: Bless those people, I love them, I know.
Nicole: Bless those people. I want to be one.
Maryann: I don’t remember who said this, but be the joy in the room, right? I try to remember that, too. Like, you want to be the person who walks in and kind of lightens everybody else up.
Nicole: Absolutely. Yes. Yes, please.
Maryann: What does joy mean to you, Nicole?
Nicole: Hmm. Joy—this is off the cuff—joy is a state of being rooted in gratitude and possibility, that very importantly is not dependent on circumstance. So I contrast it with the word “happy”. The word “happy” has its root—cause I’m a word nerd—it has as its root “happen”, “happenstance”. It’s connected to this idea of what is happening. And so sometimes, great things are happening in our lives, and it’s easy to be happy. But especially given the season that many of us have been in, joy is this state that can transcend happiness. It’s not connected to circumstance. It’s a frequency that I’m choosing to be on, I’m practicing being on, because what we practice we become. So yeah, joy is a frequency of hope and possibility and gratitude.
Maryann: I love that. Someone who sounds like they’re very happy right now is your dog, or…
Nicole: [Laughs]
Maryann: He’s really quiet right now. So either he’s napping or he just loves his toy.
Nicole: Thank God he’s passed out. He’s stolen four different things during this call. [Laughs]
Maryann: I love how you say he just showed up at your door one day, because I have a rescue also, and…So how did you find him, or how did he find you?
Nicole: So I live in a little village outside of Santa Fe that’s nestled in the foothills. It’s really just kind of like one street that’s in the foothills. And so it’s pretty wild out here, and there’s a few like little dogs that run around and they kind of belong to people, but they’re also kind of feral. And maybe they’re like half coyote, or half wolf. When I first moved into this place about a year ago, immediately I’m like, where’s my dog? [Laughs] Must get dog. Yeah, and I had been dreaming of this kind of gorgeous and also sort of rare purebred breed that I fell in love with in Montana. And so I’d started the process of trying to get one of these puppies, and the whole thing fell through kind of tragically, and actually, that same week—and of course, it’s COVID, so everybody wants a puppy, and they’re hard to get—this little feral wolfy dog starts, he just…I remember it in the morning. It was sunrise and I was watching the sunrise through my window, and I see this tiny little white face just kind of timidly poke around.
Maryann: Oh, my gosh, yeah.
Nicole: And he just started coming around. I thought he was a girl at first—I’ve decided that he’s two spirit, everybody thinks he’s a girl. And it took a month, actually, for me to be able to feed him out of my hand. Like I’d throw treats like a little bit closer, a little bit closer. And now we’re in love. [Laugs]
Maryann: It was very obvious. I know.
Nicole: It was a whole kind of Cinderella story, actually, how he actually became mine. But I think one of the great lessons that he’s taught me—and I wonder, you probably have experienced this with your rescue, I’d love to hear—is that relationship and trust is cumulative, you know, it’s built over lots of moments of showing up for each other and continuing to invest love and care and each other and kind of like building that home of love and trust between two beings. And this does not happen immediately, this does not happen quickly, and it’s also incredibly worth it. So, did you have a long kind of journey of figuring out your relationship to your rescue?
Maryann: Well, you know, we were just walking down the street one day in San Francisco. We were in the Castro neighborhood and there was a little kiosk set up with an animal rescue center. And I had no intention of adopting a dog at that time, unlike you. But I was with my brother and my son, and we just happened to glance in that direction. This little puppy was just looking at me, me, and I’m like, who are you looking at? And something just drew me to her. I just started walking to her, and I asked to pick her up. And I picked her up and she kind of fell asleep on my shoulder immediately. And that was it. I was love at first sight.
Nicole: Yes. I love that story so much.
Maryann: [Laughs] But you know, I remember reading somewhere on your website, you said our heart’s work draws our heart’s people. So apparently it also draws our heart’s animals, too.
Nicole: Yes, yes, that’s true. And this move to New Mexico was a big move, and it was a move of great faith in myself, that I could create work that’s going to create its own opportunities, as I moved to the wilderness. And so when I first moved, in those first few months, it was something that I was, you know, kind of like 75% sure of on my good days. And so I think like one of the gifts…he’s been this little breadcrumb, like I had to come exactly here for him. I’m just so sure that he is my dog, like we are meant for each other. And I think that when we’re on our journey of purpose, we’re often given those little breadcrumbs that say, you are right where you need to be. Like, here is this person, here is this being, here is this thing that you would not have if you were not here. And so yeah, I’m so grateful for him.
Maryann: It’s so true, it’s a little affirmation. And I’m finding that’s true, too, with my project that I started. I’m meeting so many amazing people. It’s been so incredible, like these amazing women doing incredible things, and I would not have met them if I hadn’t started this.
Nicole: I love that, yes. And I actually want to make that point, too, because I just feel like I need to hear it, and I feel like our audience might do that. I feel like that’s connected to this idea of when you’re doing a thing—and especially if it’s a new thing in the world that you’re doing yourself because the containers for it don’t yet exist, you have to create them. Sometimes a lot of the reason why we disqualify ourselves from that is because we know the result that we want. Maybe it’s a financial result or it’s…We know the impact that we want this thing to have, we know who we want to celebrate it. And that might feel impossible, like that might feel like it’s too far away. We doubt ourselves too much. But what has freed me to create stuff that I don’t…Everything I’ve created, I don’t feel ready for, I feel like maybe 50% equipped for, maybe. [Laughs]
Maryann: [Laughs] All of us feel that way. Imposter syndrome, and whatnot.
Nicole: Yeah, totally. But when we remember that the process itself is going to be full of so many gifts…like whether or not we realize that goal, that’s actually the goal that gets us moving. I’m just realizing, like, I asked this to a friend once who was opening a fitness studio, and it felt scary, and she was like, am I gambling on the right thing, you know? And I asked her, what is a journey that you love so much, you’d be fine with failing at?
Maryann: That’s a great question.
Nicole: Isn’t that great? What is the thing that you want to do that is so exciting to you that whether or not it was a quote unquote “success”, like just the process of doing it feels so nourishing and exciting, right?
Maryann: And you would do it anyway, right.
Nicole: And you would do it anyway, exactly. Like, the journey is going to be its own reward.
Maryann: OK, I’m writing that down, too, as soon as we’re done here. [Laughs]
Nicole: [Laughs] I’ll refine it, I’ll try to get it perfectly clear.
Maryann: I got so many nuggets today, I’m so excited. So you mentioned Tulum coming up. What else is in your repertoire for 2022? What are you dreaming about doing and accomplishing this year?
Nicole: Oh, I mean, I’m pouring my heart and soul into Alter, into the Altermembership. And I have a lot of vision on that. I’m also launching Weighty again a few times this year. And I love gatherings, I love retreats. I call them Alter journeys. And I’m looking forward to putting the exact right ones on the calendar, and it’s been interesting. I wanted to have a few this winter, and things just kind of weren’t aligning, and then also I think a lot of the uncertainty with COVID and so…I’m sitting with those open questions right now, but I know that every retreat that I’ve done, every gathering, has not only felt like it’s in the right place at the right time, but it’s felt like it’s been the exact right community. Like, the people who came were meant to meet each other as much as do the work that we were there to do, the soul work and the soul play. So I’m excited to see what that ends up being, I’ll stay tuned.
Maryann: Have you been to Tulum? It’s stunning.
Nicole: Tulum is…the whole place is just love.
Maryann: It’s so mystical, right?
Nicole: Yes, It’s mystical. There’s this scent, it has a certain kind of…I don’t usually like incense, like most incense is usually too kind of sweet for me. But when I went to Tulum the first time, I smelled this…there’s this, like, particularly smoky, holy, sexy scent. It’s the Copal that they burn down there. And it’s just so magical. So I’m remembering that.
Maryann: Well, I think you should add perfume or cologne to your list of goals. That’s a good one. You know, it just occurred to me to ask you this, because you were talking earlier about your life’s purposes and what you feel like you were put on this planet to do. Have you ever taken the Myers Briggs test?
Nicole: Long, long ago.
Maryann: OK, well, if you take it, I want to know if you’re an ENFJ. You sound like an ENFJ, which is what Oprah is.
Nicole: Oh, well, that’ll work. [Laughs]
Maryann: [Laughs] I would bet my life on it.
Nicole: OK, well, I’m writing it down.
Maryann: OK. Well, Nicole, this has been so much fun. I have enjoyed this conversation so much. I am so honored, and I feel so privileged to have had you on the podcast.
Nicole: Oh, thank you so much. And I just want to say a blessing over you and your work this year.
Maryann: Thank you.
Nicole: Thank you for creating this platform for wise, savvy, heartful women, and connecting us and celebrating us, and thank you, thank you, thank you. And thank you for being a trailblazer in this way.
Maryann: Oh, and you know, if I get to meet people like you, it’s all worth it. It’s all worth it. Before we go, Nicole, please tell our listeners how they can get in touch with you.
Nicole: Yes, so my home base is Nicolemeline.com, my website. And I’d love for you to sign up for the newsletter there, you can just go to Nicolemeline.com/newsletter. There’s a few different places on the website to sign up. I also have all my offerings there, courses, Alter, personal coaching, retreats, it’s all there. Instagram is kind of my playground of choice on social media. I’m @NicoleMeline, but I’m also on Facebook, @Nicole Joy Meline. My goal in all of these digital offerings is to create spaces that are the most inspiring, uplifting, authentic communal spaces on the internet. [Laughs] We have a lot of alternatives to that, but I want to create spaces that just feel like they supercharge your spirit and your drive, your hustle and your flow, when you drop into them.
Maryann: And they do, they really, really do. So thank you for all you do, Nicole, and thanks to Everest for being so good.
Nicole: [Laughs] Some of the time.
Maryann: [Laughs] All right, I adore you both. Thank you so much. Have a great day. Bye bye.
