The following is a transcript of this episode. It has been edited for clarity.
Teaser: Who’s ready for a makeover? No, not the kind we used to see on TV where a woman gets dolled up with some glamorous new hair, makeup, and clothes. My guest today is an author and coach who still believes in the power of makeovers, but she says they have to start on the inside, especially during midlife when we’ve got so much change going on. We’re going to talk about some internal factors that might be holding you back from feeling your best and give you tips on how you can reboot your confidence and create a fabulous, sexy life for yourself. Then we get around to how you can pamper yourself on the outside too, so that your exterior matches your brand-new interior. Sound like fun? Let’s go.
Welcome to More Beautiful, the podcast for women rewriting the midlife playbook. I’m Maryann LoRusso and I invite you to join me and a guest each week, as we strive for a life that’s more adventurous, more fulfilling, and more beautiful than ever before.
Maryann: Hi, I’m here today with Heidi Fossali. Heidi is a life reboot coach, personal trainer, beauty and style consultant and the author of From Frightened to FABULOUS: The 8 Secret Steps to Unlock the Best, Most Vibrant Version of YOU! Heidi’s focus is on helping people reboot their lives, especially during midlife when it may feel impossible to switch gears or get unstuck. Heidi, welcome to the show.
Heidi: So glad to be here. Thank you.
Maryann: Heidi, your book is part personal memoir, part life guide and handbook, but the overall purpose is to support women as they move into their second act. Can you tell us what prompted you to write this book? What motivated you?
Heidi: Yeah, [I wrote the book for] a couple of reasons, really. The first reason, [is that when] women are feeling this sort of slight stuckness, [feeling] invisible, it’s quite a daunting thought to act upon it. And making contact with someone who could possibly help you is daunting, you know, change is difficult for people. So I thought writing a book and putting what I do down in a book is quite a nice backdoor entry into the Heidi-world. Reinvention is a scary thought when you’re feeling on your back foot. So this is kind of a gentle way for people to just understand what it looks like, what those eight steps might be, instead of launching into contacting me directly. It’s a bit scary, because you know, so the book was just a gentle way—a no expectation, quiet little entry, and then they can choose what to do, because the second half of the book is all about the coaching techniques. So the step by step is the eight steps. So it’s practical too. The thing probably was a little bit of clarity on my part really, I feel quite proud of myself—my story is worth telling. We generally like to package things and put people in boxes. When you find out that I live in the south of France, I kind of keep fit, and I put a bit of lipstick on and I blow dry my hair—I don’t want people to be intimidated thinking that I’m anything but one of them. I am actually on the ground and maybe just a couple of stepping stones ahead of you with the flashlight. I mean, I’ve got a messy midlife which I share in my book. I just have the skill set, perhaps some life experience, some life knowledge, and you can just follow me. I think I can help you. So it’s a little bit of clarity as well. I also wanted to share the mission to help women get unstuck, and create a great, fabulous, sexy second act. It’s really important to me, and I know that truly is my mission. So those were the three reasons really.
Maryann: Yeah, so who doesn’t have a messy midlife? Right? I think every single woman I know over 40 has some version of a messy midlife. So during your midlife you underwent your own big changes, including a divorce and a career switch. Did you find change hard during midlife? And if so, how did you overcome your fear and choose a new path for yourself?
Heidi: The change for me was that divorce. The things that happen after that were just the sort of the layers of reinvention that sort of got me to today. It took 10 plus years. It took me years to have the courage to speak up. I was caught in my belief systems—my B.S.—we all are, you know, they create our values and structure to our life. I’m from a family of you know, mom and dad, together 65 years more in love today than ever. So I was did what I was told and kept at it. So the biggest change was, yes, creating back divorce and heading out on my own with my two young daughters. In a country [where] I didn’t speak the language. You’ll read it in the book. It’s quite an adventure, quite a responsibility, but I fear change is really hard. We get stuck in our comfort zone. Change asked you to let go and we’re not good at that. We’re not good at letting go. Even if we’re unhappy. So it’s not easy. And I can’t pretend that it was easy for me. It was horribly hard.
Maryann: Yeah, it’s the fear of the unknown, right? Because it’s one thing to change, but then you don’t know what’s on the other side. And I’ve had so many people on the show who say that, like you said, one thing, they did one thing to switch it up and [it initiated a] sort of domino effect, right? Everything else kind of fell into line after that. Heidi, what do you what do you think are the main things holding women back in midlife? You mentioned a relationship. I mean, that’s one of them. But other other big things that women seek you out for?
Heidi: Yeah, people get stuck in their comfort zone, I mentioned that. They get stuck in procrastination, they settle for what is because of the mountain to climb [in order] to change anything or they’re just putting off making a move because it all it’s all about action. Change is one thing but it will be something else if you take action. The lack of self belief, losing yourself confidence—huge, huge, huge, huge. So yeah, it’s that comfort zone. Not enough. Why me? It’s too late. And procrastination.
Maryann: Yeah. And then at the same time, you have all these physical changes that are happening to you—hormonal stuff, our bodies are just not the same as they were obviously, from when we were 25. That brings me to something you said that I really resonated with me. You said rebooting, if you’re going to reboot, has to be both an inside job and an outside job. Can you tell us what you mean by that?
Heidi: Totally, and I sort of understood this by my reinvention. I was always working on the shiny outside of myself and of other people. It was always hair, skin, makeup—I was doing makeup workshops for women, I was teaching international young adults how to present themselves. Even the aesthetic angle of fitness is aesthetically driven, as well as being health-driven. So it was always the shiny outside. And it wasn’t until I started getting messages on some social media platform about life coaching. It took a while for me to actually agree to join, and I did. It was that life coaching that made me understand there’s a whole ‘nother Heidi, which means there’s a whole self-discovery, there’s a whole inward journey of self-discovery that I launched myself on, and realize that nothing can change in your life, or on the outside, until you fix the inside. You’ve understood who you are, you’ve gone back, you’ve rewound and realized that this journey you’ve been on up till today is epic. And you are brilliant. I can’t give you a fancy red lipstick, or a fashionable something unless you feel good about yourself on the inside. How you act on the outside is generally a reflection of how you feel about yourself on the inside. So it’s really an inside job.
Maryann: Yeah, it’s so true and so many women of our generation are conditioned to pay so much attention to the exterior, right? It’s such a shame. When I look back and say, all the wasted time, all the marketing that we were bombarded with, messages from our mothers and grandmothers and it just kind of was built into so many of us. I think that’s like the beauty of midlife is we kind of get to break free from that, right?
Heidi: We have this this this freedom—or is it just attitude? Is our attitude different? I don’t know. But it’s really—I just think it’s different now and I do think there’s a wave building. It’s about this “60 is the new 40″—you know, we’re fitter, stronger, we’re mentally in touch with that sort of strength now, and I really think there’s a new tribe. It’s exciting.
Maryann: Yeah, I think because we’re talking to each other, we’re talking to one another. Our mothers did not have access to all this.
Heidi: I think I think it’s a shame that society, and especially social media put so much emphasis on the outer appearance. That’s why we panic. Aging is scary. And it’s annoying.
Maryann: It is annoying. It’s like, Why does this have to happen? Just what I was getting comfortable in my skin, you know?
Heidi: The men don’t get this, it’s all about something else with them. But, you know what? I do think that we shouldn’t give up. But does bother me when I see women just not making an effort to showcase their best self. That’s part of what I do you know—get up, self-love.
Maryann: I will say that men do go through physical changes and I’ve had several guys on this show, including Chip Conley, who is the founder of the Modern Elder Academy, and he’s out there talking about andropause, which is the male version of menopause. He was describing some of the symptoms men experience, like the belly and the loss of muscle tone and the decrease in testosterone. But men are so much further behind than we are in terms of talking about this stuff. For us, it’s the end of an era, right? We’re not reproducing anymore once we’ve gone through menopause. So men don’t have something that profound that they’re going through, but they still have their version of it, which is so fascinating. Not the same, but it’s similar. That’s not to say—Heidi and I are not saying that you should not care about your exterior. I still love makeup, I love clothes, and that’s that stuff is fun. I think what Heidi is saying is dig deeper. It’s a time to dig deeper and figure out what you really want and what you stand for and where you’re going to go. So Heidi, my next question to you is, what if women are ready for that? Because you say that you have to be ready for change. You can’t just tell someone, “You need to change.” The person has to be ready, right? So what do you think sparks that desire for change?
Heidi: I think that [there are] different reasons. I got a few clients that I work with, and they’re just saying, I just want one last hurrah—there’s still some music in me, you know what I mean? So it can be a push, even of a painful push, because it’s nicer if the vision can pull you, but often the pain is pushing you. I think people just get frustrated, settling in life, especially when their children have gone, and that void ahead is quite scary and that open road isn’t what you want. Or you just get to a crossroads and the light is green, and you don’t know what to do. But it does take action. Three things are important when you’re wanting change. One is to be curious. Search and you might find your purpose. But even if you search and find you don’t like something—join the book club, join the gym, research new friendship groups, be curious to find something that you might enjoy. But you’ve got to be curious. Next, don’t fear change, be courageous. Courageous might mean just buying a pair of running shoes, and putting them at the back door. Because you might do it in six months. Courage can be in many forms. And then the third one I would say is always be learning, have the desire to learn. Keep yourself engaged in life. So stay engaged, be curious, and be courageous. I think if you start there, it will trigger change on its own and that’s always a good thing. You don’t have to be in a bad place to change, change could actually happen through momentum.
Maryann: I find from experience with my friends and people I know that when the change is unwanted or unexpected, for instance, a job loss because of ageism or a divorce or some other incident that that person didn’t want, then there’s more resistance because they’re just kind of fixated on the way it was. And it’s hard to see the road ahead as an opportunity or that change is an opportunity right?
Heidi: But you can quantify what you’re leaving behind because you can see it. You can’t quantify what’s ahead, so that’s so frightening. One step at a time and it doesn’t have to be grandiose and life-changing. It’s not Thema and Louise, you know—
Maryann: No one has to die, ladies! [laughter]
Heidi: Don’t get behind the wheel guys, okay? I just think change is inevitable, and it could trigger something fantastic. But you got to step into it, but go gently. It’s not something that needs to be scary. And again, be curious, and I think that’s a great place to start.
Maryann: I’ve been on a couple of other people’s podcasts talking about story, because as a writer, a journalist, I just believe that everybody has their unique story, their own individual story to tell. And when people say, “Oh, I’m not original, I have no gifts, I’m not special.” I say to them, nobody has your story. It’s so unique. Just focus on what you have that nobody else has. Similarly, you say that everybody has a gift. Everybody has some gift that they can contribute to the world. So Heidi, why do so many people find this hard to believe that they have gifts? Or have trouble acknowledging their own gifts? What can they do to start realizing them?
Heidi: Let’s talk about women. Women get wrapped up in nurturing, and looking after a managing everyone else’s life. It’s an outward exercise. I think that you just disconnect with who you are and your story. You don’t want to compare your life or look at your life from yesterday or last week. You want to go way back to the beginning and look at the brilliance of the turmoil, the ups, the downs that beats of the drum, you’ve got a damn story that got you to today. You’ve done some brilliant things, you’ve done some scary things, life hasn’t been easy. You’ve got a journey. That’s the first step when I work with my clients in a group or privately, it’s who are you? Who are you? What are you good at? [And they respond,] “I know what I’m not good at!” That’s always the way. But as soon as they say, you know what, I was really good at roller skating when I was 15. Or, I’m actually quite a good chef, but that’s been knocked out of me with [prioritizing] kids and family. Or [for another example], I actually could speak Spanish when I was at school. I mean, you’ve got loads of things that you’re good at. The things that you’re good at, the things that you love, the passions in your life, all you have to do is take that passion and what you’re good at, share it with the world, if you want to make a bit of money, we can package it into a little something—a business of some kind or contribution somehow—there lies your purpose. Just take your strengths and your passions, share them with the world and you never work a day in your life. But amazing, amazing things can happen. So yeah, you just need to reconnect with that girl you’re left behind.
Maryann: Make a list, right? Make a list of everything that you are passionate about, feel like you have some talent or ability in, every accomplishment.
Heidi: Yeah, what do people ask you for? Who do you want to fight for? Things like that. It taps you back into your values and beliefs, which really are the foundation, but remembering that your beliefs can also change. They do create structure, but sometimes those beliefs—that security, when you were having children and you wanted to [know] everything was secure—in the second half of your life [could be] trapping you. Those walls of security could be the prison. Maybe it’s adventure and curiosity that you want to attach your values to. It’s it’s important, again that’s another one of the steps, it’s unpacking your values, which are foundational, but the belief systems are the things that were given to you. They aren’t something that you chose—circumstance, family, environment, gave you those beliefs. And they can change anytime you like.
Maryann: So recognizing our gifts is one thing, but you mentioned putting them out there into the world. That’s what trips a lot of people up. They can say like, “Well, I’m a good writer, but I don’t know if I want to share my writing.” Because that’s a whole extra step, especially if the thing they want to do is in a whole other realm than what they’ve done as a career all their lives. So how would you suggest that they dip their toe in the water and take that first step?
Heidi: I think that there’s a gentle way to approach any of these passions. I’ve got a client who is really good at organizing. She can get everything to a tee, you know? She’s got just enough forks, just enough knives, organized just the right way. And I said, wow that’s a real skill. Awesome—passionate about it, love it. I said to her, this is a little bit of a business model, you know what I mean? Why don’t you just make a little landing page and put the skill set out there. Just identify it, and mull over it. Look left, right and center, and just get creative. I love doing that with my ladies. Or just join a group of people who are like you, and you might find a friend who says, “Shall we do something together?” But just dip your toe in the water of what you’re really good at. If you’re really good at raising money, there’s a foundation [that could use your skill]. It’s important to contribute and grow, when you’re in the second half. If you love animals, take that passion, take that love, contribute somehow, you’re gonna feel great.
Maryann: One thing that I hear over and over again, from people who are making change is that sometimes when you make that change the people that you were surrounding yourself with previously no longer mesh with the new person you’re becoming, or the change you’re undergoing. And you kind of have to find new people that support you and encourage you. Why does this happen? And, how can we give ourselves permission to say, I may need to let go of some of those relationships or friendships and then look for others?
Heidi: That has happened to me a lot, actually and it does happen to us all. We really evolve, and it’s a season, a reason, or a lifetime—that person in your life. I think as when we were younger, we were so loyal to our friends, you know, it was my best friend, they always come to my birthday party, and you were loyal to a tee. I think having children and adapting to children playing with those children one week [and different ones another week], you get more fluid with your friendships. It made me feel much more comfortable, actually. I believe that we evolve and we’re mature, we’re women now and we don’t have that sort of dependency on our friends as much anymore. I think it’s nice to have someone to confide in and if you can count on one hand, even (I mean, that’s generous) to have those sorts of people in your life, male or female. Friendship is really important, but it’s just takes on a different purpose, a different sort of structure in your life. Again, you want to make sure that you’re looking inwards, to find [that] you’re happy, you’re not looking for sort of significance, or needing reassurance outside.
Maryann: Yeah. I find it so fascinating that some women are kind of becoming more introverted, or they’re still living a more solitary life as they get older. And they’re choosing that. They’re choosing to kind of close their world up a little, maybe they’ve been working for so long, and they’re just exhausted. Other women are hitting the ground running, right? They want to just get out there find their act, too. So there’s this discrepancy between, or there’s a whole range of people and energy levels. I find that I really need to surround myself right now with other women who are kind of embarking on this journey of self-growth as well. Otherwise, I feel a little frustrated. Do you ever find that?
Heidi: I struggled with that, actually. I’m part of different groups and masterminds online to find that because I don’t find it here. It’s really hard. I ended up being the coach for everybody. I look to find someone who can just be that sort of give and take. I find that hard.
Maryann: Are you saying you’re finding it hard to find other women who are as eager as you are? Is that what you’re saying?
Heidi: I can’t find anyone who is looking for that self-development.
Maryann: For me, it’s the other way around. Like I feel like most friends I know are finding new things to embark on. They’re taking up a new sport or they’re writing a book or they’re looking for their second act and they’re kind of powerhouses. Maybe it’s just the city I live in. But then I do have a handful of people in my life who are just like, “You know what, I worked so hard on my life. I just want to sit at home and read and have my two good friends.” So it really there’s a wide range is what I’m saying.
Heidi: Totally, totally, totally.
Maryann: Okay, so let’s talk about the physical stuff because you are also a trainer. You are in amazing shape. You’re so strong. I love looking at your Instagram Reels. You say that goes hand-in-hand with all the social and psychological change of midlife. How do you get women to get stronger? Especially if they haven’t been working out, what’s your strategy?
Heidi: That’s a hard one, because they’re feeling low in energy. So you know, chicken and the egg, you know. Generally I start with the food, because realistically it’s an 80-20. It’s 80% food, 20% exercise that gets you energetic, gets you moving. So I definitely start with the food and I encourage the 16:8 window of intermittent fasting, and taking out glucose and sugar, that drug that we’ve all been hooked on to. That is creating this sort of peak and trough, these energy highs and lows, this belly fat, because of the insulin that’s swimming around because your cells have closed shop because of so much sugar in your blood. So I start there. Then it’s getting the weight-bearing exercise, it’s so important, the resistance exercises. [People say] I walk, I walk regularly. But walking is not creating any stress on your body. Great that you’re getting out, great that you’ve got that movement in your life, but you need to put some stress on your body and its weight bearing. Getting them to the gym is difficult. So I often am working online with people who we exercise [together], and they’ve got their weights and everything. It is difficult, but it’s so necessary. It’s just osteoporosis, you want to put stress on your bones, you want to create some stability around your joints. What happens if you fall, you’ve got to be able to catch yourself. Balance is the other thing that we lose. So I work on balance. We’re doing bicep curls on one leg. Things that just make your brain a little bit bonkers. But you need to do the weight-bearing [exercise]. So important.
Maryann: Absolutely, yeah. When you first start weight training, it’s it’s hard. But then as you as you find yourself getting stronger, it’s amazing, right?
Heidi: It is! Because you can get results, it’s not immediate, but you can get stronger.
Maryann: You have to be patient; everybody wants a quick fix, but you have to be patient with strength training. But I think the payoff is amazing.
Heidi: So, so amazing. It increases your metabolism, and if you balance it with sort of bringing down the sugar and starch in your diet, increasing the healthy fat and the protein, you start seeing that tricep in the back of your arm, you know? My clients start walk tall, you know, they’ve got these little tops on—so, so rewarding. They feel better, because they feel in charge of their body again, it’s not this slippery slope, who knows what’s going to happen to my body? It’s no, I’m in charge of deciding what petrol I’m putting in my tank. I’m deciding on what I’m eating. And I’m exercising my body. And I’ve got structure to my life. And I’ve got discipline, and it’s really mentally powerful, as well as obviously physically. Yeah.
Maryann: Yeah. It’s so amazing. So I also think there are two camps of women who I think you mentioned earlier, like people thinking you have this perfect life. A couple of times on this show, Jennifer Lopez has come up and we talked, we’ve talked about how there was an article written in The New York Times by a pretty well-known author, and she was saying JLo needs to stop. This is putting too much pressure on all of us middle-aged women to think we have to continue with the working out and looking perfect and the blah-blah-blah. I’ve come to the conclusion that there are two camps of women. There are women who are really intimidated and tired of the Jennifer Lopez’s and there’s a camp of women who are just inspired. I’m in that camp because I look at her and I say, I’m not trying to be her, but I just know that this stuff is totally possible. You can be toned, you can swing around a dance pole, if that’s what you choose. You can do all these things in your 50s and she’s exactly my age. So why do you think we still have this comparative-itis with one another? And how can we switch that so that it’s not comparison? It’s more like inspiration, right?
Heidi: Why do women feel intimidated by Jennifer Lopez? Is it because they they just want to accept the situation they’re in? They’re finding comfort in the body that they’re living in? Or the idea, the challenge of changing it, is so much easier to poo-poo? I can only think that people criticize things that they’re fearful of, and fear of failure—I’ll never lose this weight off, never get stronger, I can’t run—you know, better to critique it than to to attempt and fail. But heck, you can’t fail. Just run to the lamp post and then run to the next one the week after, you know, just do it.
Maryann: Right, right. I’m just using JLo, as an example of just the many women out there who are kicking butt and doing all sorts of amazing physical feats. You’re right, it is scary and it takes a lot of effort. I think a lot of people are tired and they may see Jennifer Lopez or someone like her as being affluent or having access to things that you don’t have or that other people don’t have. But I mean, I workout by myself in my office with a floor mat and a couple of dumbbells. So it’s not like you need a ton of stuff to get in shape.
Heidi: It’s self-worth, self-belief, love yourself—do you want a long life? Do you want to spend the last 20 years of your life ill? It’s a slippery slope. You want to have a long life, but a healthy long life. If you’re not on top of it, and not watching, and being conscious of what you’re doing, eating, moving—age will creep up on you, and it doesn’t have to, it really doesn’t.
Maryann: I agree. So if there’s a woman out there who really needs to start working out and really wants to embrace that change, what would you suggest she do? Just go out and get a couple of five-pound dumbbells? What’s a good first step?
Heidi: I would encourage you [to consider joining a gym], because there are some fun classes like a barre class, and the camaraderie of the group can help you. It can give you some accountability because you have to show up. So I probably would encourage her to join some sort of class or gym. But if not, then yes, just get some hand weights. There’s plenty of stuff on YouTube. But make sure you know what you’re doing. There’s some mechanics of your body that you just have to be aware of. Even just start with body weight; just start with some push-ups. Start with some sit-ups. Just say, before I go to bed, I’m going to hold on to my cupboard, and squat down, then I’m going to do some situps, then I’m going to do some push-ups on my knees. Just start.
Maryann: We have to do sit-ups the right way, though, right? Because the way we were taught back in the day, the Jane Fonda [way of doing situps] wasn’t engaging our core as much. We have to make sure we’re engaging our core when we do anything.
Heidi: The other thing I always insist on my clients having is a band. One of the ribbon bands and just hook it [around something for resistance workouts]. You know what I mean? There’s a pull in resistance as you pull it back and as you let it go. Put it in your bag when you travel. I take mine everywhere with me. All you have to do is hook it around the door handle, put your back to it, and push and there’s a chest press, turn to face it and pull and there’s your back.
Maryann: Maybe you can send us a link to your favorite bands so we can put it in the show notes. Do you do TRX as well? Have you ever tried that? I love it.
Heidi: Love it. So good, and it’s really effective. You can do all sorts of things with that TRX.
Maryann: Okay Heidi, so we don’t want to give away all of your book, but you have the eight steps, and you mentioned a few of them, are there any others that you want to just touch upon?
Heidi: The last step is wardrobe, and I think that that’s a really beautiful way to end the steps because it can really reflect how you’re now feeling about yourself. The step before is hair, skin and makeup, which I think is also really important. We get stuck in our makeup routine of 20 years ago, and we need fresh, vibrant, luminous makeup. So I’ve got five steps to fabulous which is easy makeup every day. Then you can just step it up for glamourous evening makeup. A great haircut, love that. If you want to curl your hair, if you don’t, it doesn’t matter. Sassy, making you feel good. So just so that when you get to these last couple of steps, it does reflect how you’re now feeling on the inside, you’ve found who you are and you’re not riddled with self-doubt and self-worth anymore, or it’s on its way out. So now that wardrobe can just be flirty, it can show your curves a little more. That v-neck could just come a little lower, you get great underwear, and you just revamp or refresh. It just becomes your little signature wardrobe. You’ve got it all there already, I’m sure. It just needs a little bit of a refresh. I love the inside because it’s so groundbreaking— reinvention it’s amazing. Then that outside, definitely the middle is the fitness and food. Finally, we get into the paint and the outside. Just find your signature look. I love that because my clients are always just on such a high when they get to those last couple of steps. I just go in on Zoom into their wardrobe with them and we spend few hours in there and we just revamp it. It’s an amazing.
Maryann: It’s like a complete makeover. I mean, our generation loves that stuff. Do you remember like for years we saw on TV shows with makeovers, that was the thing.
Heidi: This is exactly that. I have this one-stop shop live reboot. It’s 12 weeks. It’s called Reboot and Revitalize and it’s on my my website, HeidiReboot.com and if you can just go and have a look at it. See what those steps look like, see what we do. So yeah, check out the website.
Maryann: Okay, so we can find you at HeidiReboot.com and on Instagram at what’s your handle?
Heidi: My name, @heidi.fossali.
Maryann: All right, great. Anything else you want to share with our listeners?
Heidi: I would really love anyone listening or watching this to have a copy of my book. So I’m going to leave a link with you my darling friend that you can click on and download my book.
Maryann: That’s amazing. We can’t wait to read it. Thank you so much for being here and who doesn’t need a little reboot right?
Heidi: Anytime in your life is nice to just refresh!
Maryann: Absolutely. Thank you so much.
Heidi: My pleasure, thank you.
Outro: Thank you so much for tuning into More Beautiful. Please visit MoreBeautifulProject.com for show notes and bonus content. And it would mean so much if you could subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you’re listening. Together, let’s continue to change the conversation around aging.
