The following is a transcript of this episode. It has been edited for clarity.
Teaser: If you’re a woman in midlife, I’m sure you know something about hormones and how they can wreak havoc on your body, mind and spirit, especially during this unpredictable life stage. My next guest is a health and empowerment coach who says every woman deserves to feel comfortable and liberated in her own skin, especially when she’s going through perimenopause and menopause. She works with clients who feel like their body is betraying them in midlife, which is something so many of us can relate to. On this episode, we’re going to talk about how even though it sometimes feels impossible, it is totally possible to navigate this crazy hormonal ride and to feel better—great even—and to get your life, body and sanity back in a big way. This is a powerful episode, so stay right here.
Intro: Welcome to More Beautiful, the podcast for women rewriting the midlife playbook. I’m Maryann LoRusso, and I invite you to join me and a guest each week as we strive for a life that’s more adventurous, more fulfilling and more beautiful than ever before.
Maryann 01:09
Welcome back! Kim Barnes Jefferson is the founder of Fit Girl Magic Society and host of the Fit Girl Magic Podcast. Her specialty is helping women over 40 kick menopause’s sorry butt—those are her words—and supporting clients who feel like their body’s given them the middle finger—again her words and like they don’t even recognize themselves anymore. Kim also says her goal is to show women how to navigate this crazy hormonal ride in a way that is sustainable and keeps you sane. Kim, those are wise words. And it is amazing to have you here. Welcome.
Kim 01:45
Yeah, I’m so excited to be here.
Maryann 01:47
We’re gonna cover a lot of interesting stuff today. But first, I would love for you to tell us all like why you got into this line of work helping women navigate this time of life and all the changes that they’re going through. What inspired you?
Kim 02:03
So it was it was twofold. When I first started, when I first became a personal trainer, I was in my 30s. And because I was a trainer that had had a corporate life, I seemed to attract a lot of women over 40. And the conversations that I was having with them, what I was taught when I was becoming a personal trainer, it wasn’t like, hey, make sure you do 10 bicep curls a day and so forth. It was my boss sucks, and I’m really not sleeping and my kids this and that. It was life that was keeping them from making the appointment or keeping them from getting to the gym. And I was like, that’s not what they taught me in personal training school. I gotta start helping these women figure out how they fit [fitness] into their already busy lives.
Maryann 02:53
Kim, most of us are very aware of all the changes that are going down in midlife and with our bodies and hormones. But for the lucky ones, or the younger women out there who may not be there just yet, can you break it down for us? Can you tell us how our hormones are driving us nuts right now?
Kim 03:11
So you know, it’s funny that most of us think about hormones only when we get into our mid- to late-30s.And then we start to have some type of symptoms. But for many of us, the those symptoms start to show their heads in their 20s. So symptoms could be irregular periods, right? So maybe one month you get your period right as rain, maybe it’s late, maybe it’s early, maybe you get it for like 20 days in a row. That is a sign of some type of hormonal imbalance. Maybe you don’t have a libido. Maybe you’re starting to put on weight, especially around your belly. So there’s a lot of little clues that might start to pop up. But, you know, either you dismiss them, or maybe your doctor dismisses them…SomethingI always I always tell my clients: Start tracking things so that…you can keep an eye on [symtoms]. Because your doctor is not going to until you keep being like, Dr. So-and-so, remember last time? Well, it’s gotten either better or gotten worse, right?
Maryann 04:19
But the bottom line in terms of hormones is that progesterone first goes down then estrogen declines. The trickiest part for me was the perimenopause stage, when the progesterone was starting to change and I was estrogen dominant. That comes with so many PMS-type symptoms, right, like cravings and tender breasts.
Kim 04:39
For a lot of people could be a lot of different things. So let’s break down what we never learned in health class: how your period works. So your pituitary gland brings out follicle stimulating hormone that says hey, time to have a baby. That follicle-stimulating hormone tells estrogen, it’s time to tell the ovaries to release an egg. Then estrogen goes out, releases the egg and tells the progesterone, hey, let’s start to line the uterus so that the baby has a place to start to grow. Well, at some point, one of those things doesn’t get the signal. Usually the progesterone starts to get a little lazy first, and then estrogen’s like, hey, you know what? I got you. I’ll help you out. And so their estrogen is like, I can make hormones from other body parts. And so a lot of us start to see belly fat, because estrogen is saying, I’m going to make and store estrogen, because I haven’t been regularly getting the signal. But I need to be ready to make a baby. And as much as we don’t want to admit this, our body’s main focus is to reproduce. That’s it. Our bodies think our main job is to reproduce.
Maryann 05:53
Our bodies didn’t get the memo.
Kim 05:54
Right. Our bodies didn’t get the memo that we do other stuff. So your body’s like, estrogen is the driver of baby. So regardless of whether or not progesterone is on vacation, I’m always gonna make sure estrogen is on board, so that when I do get that signal, we are ready to have this baby. So for many women, they do experience estrogen dominance, if progesterone goes by the wayside. But sometimes progesterone is a little higher, and estrogen is a little lower. So it just plays this roller coaster game…You know, my husband I went to Australia a few years ago, and we’re watching rugby, we’re like, OK, we figured it out…Oh, no, we haven’t. That’s how we as women are. We’re trying to figure out like, what’s higher this month and what’s gonna be lower this month and our body’s like, girlfriend, I’m just gonna keep you guessing.
Maryann 06:41
It’s so true, it’s so unpredictable. It’s so different in everybody’s body. Everyone has a different experience. Kim and I spoke earlier, and it was funny, you were comparing the ups and downs of this. Oh my god, I’m blanking on what you were saying was so funny. Oh my god, I haven’t having brain fog. I’m having my own symptoms right now…[Laughs]
Kim 07:04
Here’s the craziest thing about perimenopause and menopause. If you list all the symptoms that are could potentially be menopause…
Maryann 07:11
There are like 1,000…
Kim 07:12
It could be menopause, or it could be something else…
Maryann 07:15
And those symptoms are hard to untangle sometimes…
Kim 07:21
Especially if it’s a random thing. I had a random thing, itchy eyes. Which is a symptom of perimenopause. I had never had itchy eyes until I turned 45. And then my doctor was like, oh, it’s allergies. And now I’m going down my rabbit hole….
Maryann 07:36
Dry eye is a very common symptom. I had an opthalmologist on the show talking about that…I also did a skit on my Instagram about like, the 5,000 symptoms of menopause. And itchy eyeballs is one of them. Like, every day, it feels like there’s a new symptom that we’re hearing about. But at what point do we do we say, this is something else [other than menopause], or this is something more serious? Is this indicative of a condition? And you really need to have a doctor that’s willing to listen and hear you out and do the research with you.
Kim 08:26
Agreed. And there’s a there’s a scale called the Greene Climacteric Scale that lists several different symptoms. I [encourge] listeners to Google it, print it out, and just start to track month to month. So that way, when you do go to your doctor—and I’m sorry about this, but some doctors just kind of say, girlfriend it’s just menopause, right, and in your mind, you’re like, I got some shit going on. So you can go into your doctor’s office with [this chart] and some evidence. Doctors are evidence-based. Just be like, I’ve been tracking this for two months or three months, and this is what’s going on with me. And so that way you can start to have an intelligent conversation with them. Yeah…When I went to my doctor, she’s like, Kim, you’re not 25 anymore….In my head I was like, I can’t go to jail today.
Maryann 09:26
My mother-in-law says it and then when you hit like 70 or 80 doctors really don’t care because they’re like, Oh, you’re just old, you know? We could talk for hours about our experience with doctors, that’s a whole other topic. But one thing I love about you and how you are approaching your business and your communication with the women out there on social media is that you’re so candid, no holds barred. You’re telling it like it is. And that is really what we need right now. As much as all of us wants to go through this with grace and dignity, there are times when each of us, and I don’t care who you are, you’re not admitting it if you’re not telling me that this is you’re doing this, but you’re cursing it all, like what the fuck is happening right now? [Laughs]
Kim 09:42
Because of my age, how do you dismiss symptoms? Yeah!
Maryann 10:23
And I love that you acknowledge that. Why did you feel it was so important to be so honest?
Kim 10:28
Because what I’m that’s who I am as a person. I don’t like to beat around the bush. One of my bosses is like, Kim has no social foreplay. I don’t. I don’t have time for the wind-up, so can we just cut to the chase? Because I got shit to do…Women out there don’t want to read through the whos, whys and whats. It’s like, I’m flashing like nobody’s business: How do I deal with this? Give it to me straight…You’re just like, how do I fix it right now?
Maryann 11:06
Yeah, I know. And it’s frustrating because we want these quick fixes sometimes, but they’re not easy to get. And back to the control thing and the feeling that we’ve lost control of our bodies: A lot of us had this arsenal of strategies that worked for us in our 20s or 30s, even 40s. We knew what we had to do. For example, if we wanted to lose five pounds, or we wanted to feel better… …or fit into a dress for a party. And now we’re suddenly faced with the reality that that doesn’t always work. And we feel out of control. Like we don’t know our bodies anymore. Like you said, weight starts to accumulate in different places. And I’m not happy about the first place I now gain weight is my belly, because my clothes fit differently. And I love clothes. [Laughs]…Our metabolisms crash…How do we stay centered, Kim, in the midst of all this uncertainty and unpredictability so that we can like really love our bodies, not gonna get angry at what’s happening and approach this all calmly and rationally. I know that’s a lot to ask. [Laughs]
Kim 11:29
Yes… It is a lot to ask, because as you said, everyone wants to reach for that book off the shelf and follow it to a T. You know, you and I had a previous conversation about perfectionism, right? We’re that generation of perfectionism. As I was prepping for this interview, I [researched that] by age 45, women have been on at least 61 diets.
Maryann 12:05
Oh my God.
Kim 12:11
And that just blows my mind. So what I tell my clients is, there’s three things we have to do. One is, we have to look at our choices. Because what I did in the 20s isn’t going to work now. I have more children than I did when I was dieting in the 20s. Potentially, I might have more job stress than I did when I was in my 20s. I might be dealing with aging parents. And so the foods that I used to eat—like, if I used to be able to get away with eating 200 calories a day—I probably can’t do that anymore. I probably might be even stress eating. I might be under eating. But I have to look at my food choices…and get strategic. Maybe I’m eating the cleanest diet, but maybe I’m eating 800 calories a day and it’s not enough to sustain me throughout the day. So I have to get honest about truly what I’m eating. But then I tell clients—because it’s easy for us to make all these promises on Monday, like I’m gonna go to the gym five days a week, and I’m going to eat this and do this—I tell them to come up with one to three things that are your honor code to yourself, your daily non-negotiables. For example, I know that I can get eight hours of sleep. I know that I can have an extra glass of water during the day. Ask yourself, what are the things that, no matter what’s going on in your life and no matter how busy you are, you can always do. So that you just get to this place where you can be consistent. Not consistent for a week or 90 days, but for the rest of your life. So that it doesn’t feel like everything has to line up perfectly in order to be consistent.
Maryann 14:13
Yeah. I was gonna say the consistency is the hardest part. Because like you said, we may know what we have to do. But it’s doing it every day and staying on it that’s so challenging.
Kim 14:24
I ask my clients, what happened this week. And then say, well, you know, my kid, he was home sick, so I couldn’t go to the gym five days a week. And it’s like, OK, how do we navigate that? We all have stuff that pops up or throws us off our game. So we start to write that stuff down and say, when kids get sick, cars break down, the boss throws something on your desk at five o’clock and you were gonna go to the gym or, you know, you need to take a parent to a doctor. You have to say, how am I going to face those things when they pop up? How am I going to navigate around it? So that it’s not that in the moment like, oh, shit. It’s like, OK, Sharon has soccer tonight. OK, so that means I can’t go to the gym on Tuesday. So what does my schedule look like? Can I go on Wednesday, so that we start to, to be more proactive versus reactive. The curveballs is always gonna happen, that is just life. It’s never gonna go every single day the way you want it to go.
Maryann 14:24
Yeah, you know, not that we’re here focused on losing weight. Because you and I did have a previous conversation about the perfectionism we grew up with and the body image issues some of us had and the standards in the 90s, and how all of that was bullshit. But the reality is, some of us are trying to lose weight, some of us have gained weight because of these hormonal fluctuations. And we’re trying to figure out, how do I stay at a weight that makes me feel healthy and I fit into my clothes. But it’s so hard because the game has changed. And we might not be mathematicians. But we get the fact that there needs to be a calorie deficit to lose weight. But then like you said, we can’t just say, I’m not going to eat for half the day and lose the weight like we did when we were 20. So then, on the flip side, you have out there on Instagram doctors and health experts saying, Oh, you now need 25 to 30 grams of protein at every meal. OK, for me, I’m five feet one, if I have 30 grams of protein at three meals, I ended up eating like 2,000 calories and I cannot lose weight. I am so confused. So many women are so confused. Break it down for us. What should we be looking at if we do feel like we’re not comfortable at the weight we’re at now?
Kim 16:42
I’m all about simplicity. We’ve done enough complicated in our life. So the first thing I might say to people is…protein is always going to be the king. Instead of listening to the Instanta bros out there. I would say start by assessing where are you right now. What are you eating? And I know most people just roll their eyes at me. But trust me, you gotta know where you start. It’s like me wanting to go on vacation and not looking at my bank account. Like, you know, I’m gonna go to the Four Seasons in Bora Bora. And I got two nickels to rub together; I live in Boston and I can barely afford to go to Providence. But in my mind, I’m like, we’re going on vacation to Bora Bora. So I have to know where I start. So write down what you’re eating three days. So you can get an idea of like, what is your budget? And how do you feel in that budget? Then we can start to say, all right, how bad am I? Or how good am I? Before you start saying I need all this protein or I need this… How good or how bad are you and then start to focus on protein. Because maybe you at five-foot-one, 30 grams is not gonna cut it for you. But if you realize that you’re only eating 10 grams of protein every meal, maybe bump it up to 15.
Maryann 18:04
I like that approach.
Kim 18:06
I always tell people, if I start with looking at what my protein is, that’s the most filling macronutrient. No one ever said to me in my life—and if you’ve ever heard this, please reach out to me—Oh my god, I lost my shit and I had too much chicken last night.
Maryann 18:22
[Laughs]
Kim 18:22
No one. No one has ever said I over-ate steak. I over-atefish.
Maryann 18:26
[Laughs] That’s very true.
Kim 18:27
No one has ever said that. And if you are that person who’s like, “Oh, I can overeat anything,” I dare you to overeat some chicken.
Maryann 18:34
Unless you go to one of those Medieval Times places and they stick one of those giant turkey legs in your face.
Kim 18:39
But even then. You must be the guy entering Nathan’s hot dog contest. You need to go there. Because I don’t know anybody who can eat like a place like that and not walk away like feeling like they need a wheelchair. Get out there.
Maryann 18:49
Very good point. Valid point, OK.
Kim 18:59
So I always tell people, let’s start with where you are at. And then just start to look at what your protein level is. And if 20 grams doesn’t feel good for you, see what you are? Maybe say what does 15 feel like for you? Maybe you’re a 15-gram person, maybe you’re 20-gram person. And then that’s who you are. And then the second place is vegetables? One, as a woman we need more fiber. We talked about estrogen earlier. Estrogen is one of those things that your body will start to create and store just in case it doesn’t get the get the signal. And so one of the ways to get rid of estrogen is pooping. And so one of the ways to help you poop is fiber. So we have more fibrous vegetables, not only is it filling, but we’re also helping ourselves get rid of some of not only estrogen, but also some other toxins. So between eating more protein and eating more fiber, that’s really filling. And again, no one ever said I lost my shit eating too much broccoli.
Maryann 19:52
I love vegetables so much. I feel so blessed that I do love them. I eat them all.
Kim 19:57
And I know that there are some people who are like, I really don’t like vegetables. Eat whatever vegetable like. If you only like cucumbers rock on with your bad self and eat cucumbers til you turn green.
Maryann 20:07
You know, part of the thing is because I’m in California now and the vegetables are so amazing, like year round. When I when I was in New York, in the dead of winter you get this limpy broccoli and wilted lettuce. And it’s so hard.
Kim 20:21
Yeah, I it right now, at the time of this recording, we’re moving into where we’re getting some local harvest stuff. And it’s great. But you’re right. In February, you’re like, what can I find here? And so I always tell people, that’s when frozen is good.
Maryann 20:37
Yeah, no, seriously, I stock up on frozen vegetables. And also I make my own broccoli sprouts. Those are good. You can make them any time of year. You grow them by your windowsill.
Kim 20:46
I’ve seen people do that. And I need to map out a spot where I can make some broccoli sprouts.
Maryann 20:54
All you really need is that as a mason jar, it’s so easy.
Kim 20:59
I do love them and I used to see them regularly at my grocery store, but now it’s kind of a few and far between I see them.
Maryann 21:06
So I like your tips on starting with just bumping up your protein a little at a time. See how you do with it, increase the fiber, increase the veggies and you’re right, I think if you eat all that and you’re doing the good stuff, there’s less room and your appetite to shove the chips and the fries and the sugar in your face.
Kim 21:25
Right. But at the same time, I don’t want anyone to ever say I can’t have fun food, right? I want you to be able to go out on date night. I was the date night person who had to like interrogate the chef as to how he made my food. I want you to be able to go on a date night. When I was growing up we had pizza night. I want you to be able to have Friday night pizza night with your family, and not feel like you have to have this like separate food.
Maryann 21:57
Yeah, I’m telling you, though, Kim, I can’t eat pizza anymore. There are a few things like bagels, pizza. I can’t do it. It makes my stomach hurt. I just don’t like it anymore.
Kim 22:08
That’s another thing. Like some people will be like, Oh, I always feel bloated, but I always have to eat it and then my body’s like, girl…
Maryann 22:16
I’ve said this before on the show. But I have to tell a story about this woman I worked with when I was in my late 20s. And one of my magazine staffers refused some of the Halloween candy that somebody brought in and I said, Oh, you don’t eat cndy? And she said, I don’t eat sugar, and I asked why. And she goes, because it doesn’t make me feel good. And I always remembered that: It doesn’t make me feel good. That’s all you need to know.
Kim 22:39
Yeah, and sometimes it takes us so long to get there. You know, I buy this like spinach thing at Trader Joe’s. And they just changed the formula. And I was eating it. And after I ate it my stomach hurt. And I thought, there’s something in here. I don’t know what it is. [But my body doesn’t like it.] And I was like, I guess we’re never gonna buy these anymore. But I bought it for years before and it had never bothered me at all.
Maryann 23:11
Besides diet, the other thing that we hear over and over about how to approach our health and fitness in midlife is weight lifting or weight training. We keep hearing that we lose muscle mass after 35, as much as a pound a year. And it helps with so much right, not only with weight loss, but it helps with keeping you strong, keeping your bones strong. And then there are other things, possibly decreased dementia risk and improved cardiovascular health. Tell us tell us why we should be lifting, Kim.
Kim 23:44
Alright, so when I first was being trained, there was this woman, she had to be 70 If she was a day, and she showed a picture of her mom who had to be 95. She showed her mom pulling out a gallon of milk out of the refrigerator. And she said, Do you know how many 95-year-old people can’t lift a gallon of milk? It’s just an act of daily living, like being able to pour yourself a glass of milk. And so she also showed this other video…and so many of us get so focused on the sweat, because we grew up with aerobics like the Jane Fonda world…but she showed a video of a gas stove and an electric stove. And she said cardio is like a gas stove. We all turn on the gas stove to high, flames come out. I turn off the gas stove and within minutes, that surface is cool. That’s what cardio does, gets your heart rate up. You feel really good. You’re all hot. And then within a few moments your body’s back to normal. Weight training is like an electric stove. You turn an electric stove to high, you keep that on for good five minutes, you turn that stove off, it’s gonna be a good 10-15 minutes before you can put your hand comfortably on that burner.
Maryann 25:13
I like that metaphor.
Kim 25:14
And if you think about it, that’s strength training. After I lift weight, my body is still repairing what I just did at the gym. Not only that, when we say weight loss, most of us want a body composition change, right? So if we think about weight…if I had a beach ball and a baseball—this big fluffy beach ball versus a solid, hard baseball—if I put sand in the beach ball at the same weight as what a baseball weighs, which image would you pick, you pick, I want to look more like the baseball. And so that’s what weight training does for you, it takes your muscle and it adds bulk to your body. And when I add both to my body, I shrink, so I don’t have room for fat. And when I don’t have room for fat, I also am burning more calories at rest. Because the more muscle I have on my body, the more calories I’m able to burn just by every acts of daily living. One, it helps me in my acts of daily living; two, when we lose estrogen, one of the things that we lose is our bone protection. My muscle are attached to my bone. So when I strength train, I’m physically pulling on my muscles that are attached to my bone. That is making my bones much stronger, because it has to hold up all this muscle.
Maryann 26:42
So interesting.
Kim 26:43
Yeah. People [in midlife] also complain that their metabolism goes down. That happens because we’re losing three to 5 percent of our muscle every single year. That accelerates once we hit age 75. So if I can stem the tide…it’s like kind of like we’re putting up a dam to try to push back what’s happening naturally by strength training. And most women will be like, I don’t want to get too bulky. Well, it’s not gonna happen. Unless you have some ridiculously high testosterone or HGH level in your body. I think there’ll be other signs that you you have this. But it’s really hard for women to gain muscle by themselves one, but once I hit over 40, and I’m fighting the aging process, it’s even harder to get that bulk that you think you’re going to get. So I always challenge women, when you hear lift heavy, heavy is relative. So whatever you’re doing, I want you to think, the last two to three reps should feel challenging, but doable. Like I can get it out. But it’s gonna be a little extra oomph to get that that weight up.
Maryann 27:50
Yeah, that was my next question: How much do we need to be lifting? And is resistance training as good as lifting weights? Does it give you the same benefits?
Kim 28:03
So, you know, we could split hairs. I always tell people, use what you got. After COVID some people might not feel comfortable going back to the gym. Or they might be like, you know, I really enjoy that I get to work out at home, I don’t have to put on a cute outfit, I can just go and do my workout. So I tell people, something is better than nothing, right? So even if you have some five-pound dumbbells, I can make those five pound dumbbells really hard just by changing the tempo. So I can lift it really heavy, or I can really slow it down and really make it a little bit more challenging for me, I can also use my body weight. Because if you think about it, if I weigh 150 pounds, I get to lift and lower 150 pounds. And you know, we’ve all seen the people who can’t get themselves out of a chair.
Maryann 28:52
What if you do have just the five pound dumbbells. How can you make your workout harder?
Kim 28:56
I just slow it down. I can do this…all night long.
Maryann 28:56
You [listeners] can’t see what Kim is doing…She’s putting fake weights above her head right now. [Laughs]
Kim 28:59
So I’m lifting and lowering my hands really fast. I can also slow it down and raise it up off my head to a count of five. That feels so much different than when I’m lifting and lowering as fast as I can versus adding a little bit of time under tension. And you could do it with soup cans, you could do it with jugs of milk, jugs of water, fill things with rocks, fill things with sand, so you can get pretty creative with things. But you could also go to the gym and don’t feel intimidated…You do you. Most people are only paying attention to themselves at the gym.
Maryann 29:53
How many reps should we be doing?
Kim 29:57
So I always tell people, anywhere from five to 12 reps. We can get into hypertrophy versus strength versus power, but if you are working anywhere between the five and 12 rep range, that’s really good. But most people can get away with going to the gym two to three times a week, and the American Council on Sports Medicine recommends that we do 150 minutes a week, and that can be broken up in any way that you want. It could be 10 minutes here, 15 minutes there, it doesn’t really matter. Most of us grew up with the hour gym time, right? If you no longer have an hour, that’s OK. 20 minutes is fine, 15 minutes is just fine. You can get a great killer workout in that short amount of time.
Maryann 30:50
Yeah, and we always hear that you have to leave a day in between…for muscle repair. Is there a downside to working out every day?
Kim 31:04
I feel like if you were like someone who was truly bodybuilding and you were leaving the gym with knuckles dragging on the ground, because you’ve just lifted so heavy, then yeah, you might need a day in between. I always say everyone needs at least one or two rest days a week. I always recommend that you look at your schedule. Because if I start to get into this idea that I need one day in between, but I only can work out Monday through Wednesday, then just work out Monday through Wednesday. I’d rather you work out than not work out trying to adhere to these schedules.
Maryann 31:41
That makes sense. Along the lines of the bone loss that you were mentioning that weight training can help to stall: I had an evolutionary geneticist on the show who pointed out that Mayan women have bone loss like we do, but they have fewer fractures. And the reason why is because they’re doing weight bearing exercises in their day to day every hour old till they die.
Kim 32:04
Yes, if you look at other cultures that are still doing that agrarian type lifestyle where they’re hauling stuff everywhere…What are we hauling, the groceries from the from the car?
Maryann 32:23
I’m hauling my 30-pound dog who went blind, I’m carrying her up and down stairs.
Kim 32:29
But some people don’t even go grocery shopping anymore; they have them delivered.
Maryann 32:40
So we can’t have a discussion about weight-bearing exercises without talking about the scale, because we so many of us have a very complicated relationship with the scale. And I know from my personal experience, whenever I get on a new exercise program, or whenever I start pumping it up a little bit, so to speak, I anticipate that the number on the scale is going to go up a little bit in the first few weeks of my weight training, because I’m building muscle, right? And a lot of women get frustrated during those initial stages. I know you’re an advocate of not getting on the scale every day. Tell us why you feel strongly about that.
Kim 33:18
So your body weight naturally fluctuates. Many of us think, if I decide today that I’m going to lose the weight, that the scale is just going to start from wherever you start and is just going to go down in a nice linear fashion. But I want you to think about your body like if we were looking at the stock market. Does a stock start at $1 and just skyrocket to $100? No, it’s up for a couple days, and down for a couple days, and down for a couple more days. Then it jumps right back up. And then it goes up again and it comes back down. So your weight is like a like a stock market ticker. So what was the last time you got your period? So did I get my period? Did I start weighing myself at the end of my period [when I’m lighter]? Or did I start weighing myself at the beginning of my period? Did I have a lot of water yesterday? Did I have a lot of salt yesterday? Did I have alcohol? Did I poop? There are so many like factors that could make the scale go up one or two pounds. Did I have a lot of carbs yesterday? Because carbs chase water. So if I had a very carb-rich meal, for every one gram of carbs that I eat, it holds on to two grams of water. And so there’s so many factors. So I always tell people, if you’re someone who needs to weigh yourself, great. Rock on with your bad self. Weight yourself once a week, right? Weigh in on Wednesday. And then instead of being like, I suck, I need to go harder, do a CSI: What happened last week? And then be more scientific. Have I been pooping? Maybe I need to look at what I’m having for vegetables. Maybe I need to increase my fiber. Oh, you know what, I’m about to get my period. Oh, there it is. Do it in a scientific way versus a “I suck and I’m not eating today” way. Be able to have an intelligent conversation with yourself versus an emotional conversation.
Maryann 35:27
Yeah, you’re gonna yell at me but I’m gonna say something very controversial.
Kim 35:30
Go ahead!
Maryann 35:30
I’m very odd this way, because I do go on the scale every day. And I’ve been doing it since I was probably like 40. I never did it as a kid, or as a 20- or 30-year-old. But I remember reading this article 20 years ago about [fashion designer] Tom Ford. And he said every morning, he starts his day by getting on the scale. And at first I thought, Oh, he’s crazy. But then I started doing it. And you’re right, the numbers were going up and down. But I kind of approached it like this investigation like, oh, my weight went up because I ate that thing last night. Or because I had a salty meal. And it kind of taught me a lot about my body. And then I found that once I got to the weight I wanted to be, just popping on that scale once every day or two was a nice reminder of where I want to be. But I gave myself leeway of like five pounds. But and I did that for like 10 years. And I stayed within the same like three-pound range. And I found that then during COVID I got kind of lazy and I gained weight. So I don’t know, for me that just works. And I don’t like to tell people that because they’re like, you’re not supposed to be doing that. I also have a friend who scoffed at that when I told her but now she’s weighing herself daily. And she’s staying at the same weight consistently. So it’s so weird, right, how some things work for some people and not others.
Kim 35:43
But it’s like you got you got on this scale, as what I said, from a pure scientific thing. You were approaching it as a scientist, right? And it was like, this is my experiment, and then you started to realize, OK, when I have this, my body weight goes up; when I have that, my body weight goes down. When I kind of stay here my body is like, yeah, we got this.
Maryann 37:20
Yeah. And I like knowing what different foods, alcohol, anything does to my body.
Kim 37:49
And for my over exercisers who are listening: I’m a recovering over exerciser. I used to feel like if I didn’t work out for like two days in a row, I would just wither down like a balloon. It takes about six to eight weeks to have true muscle atrophy—like if you’re in a cast for six to eight weeks.
Maryann 37:50
Even at this age?
Kim 37:50
it takes about six to eight weeks, even at this age, for us to really see some type of visual change. But you know, for you weighing yourself every day, you came in it from a good headspace. A lot of my clients, they don’t come from a good headspace. The headspace is very emotional: I suck. So that means I have to deprive myself or there has to be a consequence.
Maryann 39:17
Yeah, Kim and I talked a lot about this earlier, how many women in our generation grew up feeling like we had to be perfect at everything. We had to do all the things, do it do it all super well, and we had to stay a certain weight. You know that beauty looks just one way and that was skinny. Right? And many of us are still trying to overcome that. Kim, what would be your advice for a woman out there who feels like she’s just needs to maintain those standards? Because it gets more challenging as you get older and you get to a point where you’re like, Why? Why am I even trying to do this? What’s the point?
Kim 40:06
You know, people always ask, how did you stop being an uber exerciser? It’s kind of like…the day you you realize you’re an alcoholic, right? Like, just one day, you’re just like, I can’t. I just had so many bleeping rules. And it was impacting my life. Like if I went to someone’s house, they would be like, I can’t cook this because Kim can’t eat this. can eat this. So it was like, oh my God, my rules are now infringing on friends so they can’t just make whatever they want for dinner. Like, they ask, Can Kim eat that? And it’s not like I have allergies. It was because I had these frickin self-imposed rules that I couldn’t eat. And I was like, wow, I’ve become that girl. And I remember I went on vacation and I didn’t want to be the American who’s the diva? And I was like, OK, what can I do to not be the diva? And it was that moment that broke me free. And so you just have to ask yourself, am I happy living this way? We talked about midlife, right? If I spent 15 years doing that, do I want to spend the next 15 years doing that? Or do I want to come to a place where I have balance, so I can go out to a restaurant and not interrogate the waiter—like, what is this food cooked in? Can you make it plain? Can you steam it? No, I don’t want to choose to live my life that way. And a lot of people have to come to that breaking point where they’re just like, I don’t want to live my life like that anymore.
Maryann 41:54
Yeah, well said. I think the key is to approach it from a place of self love.
Kim 42:01
Yes.
Maryann 42:01
Because many women over 40 or 50, I think getting control of the weight, and the health isn’t just about our looks anymore. It’s about something much deeper. It’s about our health, of course, but it’s about sticking around, maybe, so we can see our grandkids one day or trying to avoid health issues that seem inevitable as you get older. So I think if you look at it as like, I love myself, I love my life, or like you said, I want to be here for a long time, how am I going to nurture myself?
Kim 42:30
Right, and you know, for a lot of people, it takes courage to do something new. We’re recovering perfectionists…[but I think there are] four mindsets. And I like to describe it as GPS. We all have Waze and we all are driving to the same place. You’re driving along and Waze says, hey, traffic’s building, if you take the next exit, you’ll get there faster. And if I have the mindset of like, No, this is the path, I must say the path, I want that certainty. That’s one of our human conditions. But do you have that kind of flexibility in your thinking that you like, I just want to get the hell there faster? Can I make that left turn? Even if I don’t know, I’ve never taken that exit before in my life. I’ve been on this highway a million times. I don’t know where Pine Street takes me to. But I’m going to try it, just break out of my shell and see what happens. Because guess what, I can always get back on the main route. And for a lot of people, it’s such a shift for them to do something different from what they’ve done for 20 plus years.
Maryann 43:32
Yeah. And I think it’s the same if you want to try new things, new ways of moving your body…That’s great for your brain and your body, right?
Kim 43:52
Oh, 1,000 percent. We’ve both had Barbie Boules on our show. And she talks about Alzheimer’s and one of the biggest things she suggests, besides the right foods and so forth, is just constantly coming up with ways to get your brain to think so that you’re keeping your pathways open.
Maryann 44:14
Yeah, especially when you have Alzheimer’s in your family like I do. It is so scary.
Kim 44:18
Oh, yes.
Maryann 44:19
Kim, what is your take on some of these drugs that are becoming very, I don’t want to say trendy, but very popular right now. Like Ozempic Does the prevalence of those scare you at all right now? Or do you feel like they’re assisting people?
Kim 44:34
So, you know, we talked about being good reporters and being able to talk about the good and talk about the bad so that we can make informed decisions. So when they first came out, and you know, I’ve had clients who struggle with food, like it’s just really hard for them to control their appetite and I get that and I’m like, You know what, God love you if [that drug] is going to help you. Where I kind of get a little nervous is…I go to this Med Spa for facials. And on the counter, it said, we’re now offering weight-loss injections. I read it like three times. And I’m like, I know they do a lot of different things. But that was just so like, whoa, like it just it like made me take pause, like, is anyone here an RD? You know, everyone here is here for aesthetics. And I was like, now it’s become an aesthetic thing. And I’m like, what are the questions that they ask these people? What’s the criteria? If went to my medical doctor, who had been treating me, and I was pre-diabetic, I knew I was struggling with my weight for years, and they gave me that, I’d be like, hey, rock on with your bad self. But now that’s in a med spa?
Maryann 46:04
Yes! And you and I spoke on your show about how we grew up with—and our moms grew up with—these bad diets of the 70s and 80s, and diet pills and prescriptions and these quick fixes to weight loss. And then it seemed to stop for a while, and our attitudes toward [weight] seemed to become a little bit healthier during the past 10-15 years. And I’m hoping we’re not swinging back in that direction.
Kim 46:32
Yeah and for anyone here who’s struggling with their weight, I get it. I’m talking about the people who are chronically always 10 pounds overweight. There’s no lessons they teach you. There’s no lifestyle changes that are taught with this. And for many of us, it is lifestyle changes. And, you know, as I mentioned earlier, if I look at my food, many of us have some extras in our nutrition. And I’m not saying you have to radically cut things out, but look at the extras. Like, are you having wine every night? Are you having a cup of something where maybe you could have a half a cup of that and see how your body reacts. Start with that first.
Maryann 47:18
I read somewhere that there were natural alternatives to drugs like Ozempic.
Kim 47:32
One of the big topics in the health-and-fitness space right now is blood sugar. Especially for women over 40, as we get into menopause regulating blood sugar is very hormonal. And we face insulin resistance. So basically, what that means is that if we’ve overfed our body, our body no longer feels the response of insulin as quickly. So that means we have a lot of blood sugar running around our body. Now, blood sugar is anything of eating in excess. It’s not just sugar sugar; all of our food breaks down into glucose. So if you have an excess of glucose running around in your body, your body’s like, I don’t know what to do with it, and throws it up into storage, body fat. And so that’s one of the one of the big conversations we’re having. That’s one of the reasons why Ozempic is such a big thing, because it controls blood sugar levels.
Maryann 48:28
Yeah, and I’m hearing more stories of women who are becoming insulin resistant, even when they are a healthy weight and exercise every day and have good diets. Is it hormones? Genetics?
Kim 48:41
It’s part hormonal, part genetics. One of the things that makes you able to handle more insulin is strength training.
Maryann 48:50
Another benefit of strength training, ladies!
Kim 48:52
Right! So if I’m able to have more muscle, my muscle will use that glucose as I’m working out to help fuel my workout. For a lot of people insulin resistance is a thing. And so Berberine is a supplement that has been shown to help you control your blood sugar levels. And so you know, blood sugar is having a big moment, and it is a thing and it’s something that if you haven’t had it checked, it’s something for you to start to check to see if it is creeping up, especially as you head into that perimenopausal age. Most people probably should start having it checked in their early-40s, if they’re not checking it already.
Maryann 49:36
Yeah, good advice. Kim are there other common issues that affect women in perimenopause or menopause?
Kim 49:43
The two things for women this age: sleep and stress. We as women are very resilient compared to our gentlemen. One of the big things I always challenge women who are entering into their 40s to pay attention to self-care. And it’s more than manicures and pedicures. I have a client with three kids under age 5 who sits in her closet for 15 minutes, and she puts a timer in there and she’s like, don’t bother me for 15 minutes. It’s that kind of thing, being able to just unplug from the Matrix, if you will.
Maryann 50:28
Why do you think I podcast in my closet here?
Kim 50:32
Right, exactly. They’re like, I hear her talking; is it the TV, like what’s going on? But yeah, right now, one of the biggest things everyone needs to do is just chill the hell out. Right? We all need at least 15-20 minutes. It’s breathwork it’s meditation, it’s going for a walk. It’s whatever you need to do to just help you be you. Like, you know, one of my clients is a big knitter. Another client does needlepoint. But just do something that gets you out of your head and just helps you to calm the hell down. And the second thing is sleep. You know, a lot of my women, they don’t sleep. Our hormones make it hard to sleep if you’re flashing with night sweats. Have you talked about revenge bedtime?
Maryann 51:20
No, what’s that?
Kim 51:22
So revenge bedtime is…if we still have kids in the house, we’re running around making sure they have the permission slip signed, and the sneakers and the this to get them ready to go for the next day. And then you sit down and you’re like, finally, it’s 9:30 and it’s my time. And then you stay up late, just doing whatever it is that you do. Because finally no one’s tugging at your sleeve. And so instead of reading a book and going to bed by 10, you’re up till 12, 1 o’clock in the morning doing whatever it is that you might be doing. So I tell my clients, get yourself a bedtime, like you’re 9 years old. Whatever time you get up in the morning, count out eight hours back and get yourself to bed. So that, you know, you can try to get at least seven hours of sleep.
Maryann 52:17
Sometimes I get into bed and my husband comes in and we start talking about random things like scheduling and the kids and I’m like, just get into bed and shut up. It’s like when he goes out of town it’s like…like I remember Barbra Streisand once described how her favorite places in her bed with her books and snacks and her laptop. And that’s me when when he’s out of town. I’m like in bed at 9 with all the things.
Kim 52:42
That’s the funny thing. It’s called Kim time here at my house. And so I will head upstairs and he comes in and I like watching TikTok videos for 20 minutes. And then I’m breathing. And then I’m reading my book. It takes me an hour to unwind. But it’s like how I ease into sleep. Think about when your kid was little, there was tubby time and then the stuffed animals had to be placed in a certain spot, then it was like two or three stories, and then they were ready to go to bed. Like we just go from cooking dinner and doing the dishes, to passing out on the couch.
Maryann 53:34
But you know, when the kids were little they went to bed at 7, 7:30. And then you had all that evening time. Now it’s like, I call teenagers like the horrible roommates because they’re up all night. They’re drumming. They’re on the phone. They’re up and down the stairs, opening the refrigerator. I don’t know, I kind of prefer the little kids going to bed at 7:30.
Kim 53:56
You’re like, do I have to lock you in your room?
Maryann 54:00
Oh my god, Kim you make me laugh. This has been so amazing. I got so much valuable information. I’m so grateful. OK, one more question. Tell us what you want every woman out there to take away from this conversation in terms of living their best life, their healthiest life, right now.
Kim 54:17
You know, I said a lot of things today, and you probably took a lot of notes. Pick one thing, right? You know, when we were on our show Maryann and I talked about the Enjoli commercial. And when we had to do like 400 things. Just pick one thing and get really frickin good at it, nail it, and then move on to the next thing. And trust me even when you get good at one thing, you’re gonna notice something. If it’s protein, you’re like, you know what, I’m less hungry, I’m less snacky. If I’m sleeping, I’m less hungry. I’m a snacky, I’m less bitchy. Stop trying to multitask. Let’s just put that back in the 90s where it belongs.
Maryann 55:02
I love that. We should sing. Do you know the [commercial jingle]. Do you sing?
Kim 55:08
In my head I am Whitney Houston reincarnated.
Maryann 55:10
[Laughs] Yeah and I’m Celine Dion.
Kim 55:13
Right. I mean, there’s a hole, there’s been a vacuum. Doesn’t Celine have something wrong with her throat?
Maryann 55:19
I’d atually rather be Mariah Carey in her heydey. Or Babs. I’ll take Babs.
Kim 55:26
Yeah, Babs. She’s got that mystique about her. That’s what I love about Barbra Streisand, she’s upheld that mystique for decades.
Maryann 55:35
She has and you know, she’s been slammed so much again for being like the perfectionist, the overachiever…But if a man had standards like that, he’d be like, awesome, right?
Kim 55:49
Oh, yeah, I’m sure with U2, all the things have to be [just perfect] before Bono shows up.
Maryann 55:58
[Laughs] Kim, thank you so much for doing the show today. Tell everybody out there where they can find you online.
Kim 56:04
You can find me on both Instagram or Facebook. I am Kim Jefferson coach. And then you can also listen to my podcast, Fit Girl Magic.
Maryann 56:15
Love it. I love everything you do. Thank you so much for joining us.
Kim 56:18
You’re welcome. Thanks.
Outro 56:19
Thank you so much for tuning in to More Beautiful. Please visit Morebeautifulproject.com for show notes and bonus content. And it would mean so much if you could subscribe, rates and review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you’re listening. Together, let’s continue to change the conversation around aging.
