Teaser: Historically, midlife has gotten a bad rap. It can be a challenging time even without the limiting stereotypes that our generation grew up with. One of the aspects of the More Beautiful Project that’s been the most fun is connecting with other people in the midlife space who are reframing this time of life is one of great personal transformation. Today I’m chatting with one of those incredible women, so stick around because this is going to be one uplifting episode that I think is going to light a fire under your booty to get out there, have some fun, shake things up and thrive in midlife and beyond.
Intro: Welcome to More Beautiful, the podcast for women rewriting the midlife playbook. I’m Maryann LoRusso, and I invite you to join me and a guest each week, as we strive for a life that’s more adventurous, more fulfilling and more beautiful than ever before.
Maryann: My beautiful guest today is Patti Diener, a romance novelist, blogger, midlife advocate and host of the Beautiful Second Act podcast. I just love Patti’s mission, which is to help people in midlife thrive during the second half of life. And like me, she says it’s never too late to shake things up, start something new, or tap into a different part of yourself. Patti, it’s so wonderful to have you here. Welcome to the show. I’ve been looking forward to our conversation all week.
Patti: My gosh, Maryann, you and I are just kindred spirits. I just love talking to you. So thanks for having me on.
Maryann: Patti, you used to be a librarian in the California Public School System. Tell us about your early retirement, how you got the idea for Beautiful Second Act and how your second career as a romance novelist came into play, and why you embarked on this journey to support and encourage people in the second half of life?
Patti: A very good question. So I’m some sort of a cliche: the librarian that’s trying to become a published author. Books have been the epicenter of my entire existence [since childhood]. They saved me. My father was married multiple times when I was small. And I would just dive into books to…take myself away. And whenever the family was in tumultuous situations, I could find my peace in living wherever I wanted to through novels. The fact that I became a public school librarian really wasn’t a shock to me, but because I’m so outgoing, some people were [surprised]. But I really enjoyed it for a while. I have had multiple different jobs or careers, because I get bored. I feel that there’s too much, there are too many things I’m interested in in this life. So when I get bored with something I want to move on, I want to taste the different candy. To me, life is too short to not experience all these things. Until I became a librarian, the longest I’d ever held a job was about seven years. I was then a public school librarian for 12 years. And then everything started going sideways with public education. I’d like to blame it on COVID, but it really was going [in that direction] before COVID. I’m a very spiritual person. I tend to talk to the universe, the God source, whatever you want to call it. And I had always been asking for guidance because I was finding that I was a nonconformist. I was not doing what the upper management was expecting of me anymore or actually I was exceeding expectations, but I would question authority too much.
Maryann: Are you an Aries? When’s your birthday?
Patti: I’m a Taurus
Maryann: Really? Never would have guessed.
Patti: Yeah, I questioned authority far too often. I had this sign in my office that said, “Lord, please put your arm around my shoulder and a hand over my mouth.” So when COVID came, I felt like it was my fault, that I brought this on myself. that I manifested this great pause in the universe. And it was because I had been starting to feel lost. And I had been on a path toward a true career. You know, before [working in the public school system] I ran a day spa; I opened the first day spa in my community. I did daycare when my children were small. Then I was an office manager for a pediatrician for about six years, I mean, I did different things. So when I became a public school librarian working in public education, people say that’s a real career, right? So I just felt so guilty in the beginning about walking away from such a sought after position. Actually, if you’re going to work in public education, librarian is the best job there is, when they were expecting children to actually learn to read…And then COVID hit and I kind of was lost. And so I started thinking, I need to have guidance from people who know better than me, from people who’ve done things and succeeded. And how do I quit my job. So I started listening to Kathy Heller’s podcast, Don’t Keep Your Day Job. Bottom line was I started listening to these podcasts, and she was just one of them. But it was the first one that came up for me that I really got engaged with. And it spoke my language it was about, it’s OK to change lanes, it doesn’t matter how old you are, you can start and do whatever the hell you want. It was about acceptance, self acceptance, and following your true north instead of what society tells you to do. So I decided that I was going to give one more year to the school district, because I needed to plan my exit…But I knew I had to do it in a responsible way. And I retired at the age of 53. I’m 55 now. And so many people looked down their nose at me for that. It was really shocking, to be honest with you, how many people said, “Why don’t you at least wait until you’re 55? You’ll get more money.” And then there one person who was like, “You’re too young to retire, who are you to retire?”
Maryann: The judgments are so fascinating.
Patti: It was surprising to me. And then I talked to my husband, which was the biggest surprises…He was like, “Are you sure you want to do that?” And I was like, “OK. I have to really meditate on this.” So I did a lot of inner work. And I finally said, No, I know me, more than anyone else knows me. I know what my dreams are. I know what my desires are. And I stuck it out longer than the seven years I said I would…the Seven Year Itch. I was there for 12 years. And when I retired, I had the full support of my husband, obviously, but it took it took me to convincing him the why: why did I really want it, it wasn’t like a spur of the moment decision. It was something I gave a lot of thought to. And because I’ve always been a writer, I published my first novel in 2019. It was going quite well. I was very excited about it. Until COVID hit and we could no longer do book tours. It’s like I had all these events planned, and they came to a screeching halt. So the podcasting, it really helped me. And I thought I wanted to give back the way that they gave to me. I found courage, I found inspiration. I found acceptance of myself, I found all kinds of other people just like me, who were searching for something in the second half of life. That was my joy. I mean, I wanted to find my joy, and I was no longer living in joy. And I thought that’s a really interesting concept to live with joy. So I started a podcast in May of 2021. We’re about to celebrate our two-year anniversary. And it just really started taking off without really very much marketing or any kind just word of mouth. Just friends telling friends, and I love it. I love the connection with humanity that podcasting gives us.
Maryann: I totally agree, 100 percent. I love your journey. And it’s a testament to like, we don’t have to be one thing, right? We are so many different things and we can explore all those different things right? I think it’s so great. But Patti, we grew up with some very limiting beliefs and ageist stereotypes of mature women, midlife women, what have you. You and I discussed this on your podcast a few weeks ago. In pop culture especially, middle-aged women were often seen as shriveled-up husbands or bitter or irrelevant. And these characters were relegated to the sidelines. I see midlife so differently. You see midlife so differently. Do you think the culture is changing because of the voices like yours that are out there now talking about midlife and reframing midlife?
Patti: Absolutely. I’m seeing that it’s. It’s becoming, I don’t like the word trend, but I guess a movement might be a better way of phrasing it. Because there are so many strong, powerful women that are even in their 70s, 80s and 90s talking publicly now about [this]. When we were younger, people really weren’t talking so much about the empowerment of the second half of our lives, or the empowerment of going through menopause, or the empowerment of a women of a certain age…This is when the freedom starts coming. Because we stop worrying so damn much about what other people think…I love that more and more women are stepping into their power, stepping into who they truly are, what they truly want, and they’re not afraid to ask for it.
Maryann: Yes, and you know, you’re right, there a bunch of movements happening. I think there’s that menopause movement that’s happening, There’s a midlife movement. And I think the internet has given us such accessibility to all this stuff. And our voices can be heard finally, and I think it’s affecting not only our generation, but I think younger women who are starting to see that midlife is not this big old dead end that we were told awaits us at 40 or 50, or at menopause or whatever. There are women doing incredible things beyond that. And I think that’s great for younger women to know, don’t you think?
Patti: I do. I have two daughters; one is turning 29 In July, and the others is 25. And they are like my biggest cheerleaders. I mean, they’re like, You go mom, and they enjoy seeing me thrive. I just came back from a trip to England. And I remember that I was saying that I never even had a passport until I was in my 50s and I’m finally doing things and they’re like, we’re not going to wait that long, and I’m like, good for you. They’re so different, they’re seeing their future so differently from the way I saw my feature at their age. [The girls are telling me], Mom, you’ve got all this stuff still…look at all the things you’re able to do now. And they know that they have a great future ahead of them that’s not going to stop if they retire or get divorced or lose a job or get gray hair or wrinkles or go through menopause. These things don’t stop us.
Maryann: Oh my gosh, so true. You know, I was recently watching the 1960 movie Barefoot in the Park with Jane Fonda and Robert Redford. Have you seen it?
Patti: No.
Maryann: I know it was one of the first movies I watched [on television] with my mom because she loved that film. [The actress who portrayed Fonda’s mother] was dressed [very matronly] and she could barely climb the stairs. She had silver hair and she was very frail. When she finally gets up the stairs to their apartment, Fonda’s character says something to Redford like, “We can’t let my 52-year-old mother do this.” I was gonna put this on social media and juxtapose that image with like Jennifer Lopez or something, because, right, you can’t get more different [portrayals] of a 50-something woman.”
Patti: No, it’s the way we see ourselves. I think people in general kind of gave up at a certain age. They were like, well, this was my life expectancy. I guess I don’t have to take care of myself anymore. Just let it all go. And it was sad because I remember when my grandmother was in her 40s and 50s—I was a small child because, you know, everybody in my family had kids young—she she was the little blue-haired lady who sat and smoked cigarettes and played bingo. It’s funny to me because nowadays, you see women in their 50s and they’re out jogging, or they’re CEOs of companies and they’re killing it. And they’re not wearing their polyester, elastic-waist pleated pants. They’re wearing designer jeans and…they’re just happy to still feel like…this is the beginning of the next half of my life, right? This is just the beginning. Instead of it’s the end.
Maryann: I agree. Still, change is a little slow. Just this morning I did a Google search for the word midlife, as I do from time to time to see the SEO is picking up on these trends…and still, the first thing that pops up is midlife crisis. Which is so bad because we don’t want to use those hashtags, right? A lot of stuff does go down during this time of life—sometimes some very intense things. But I don’t think I’d call [any of it] a crisis. I think it’s so unfortunate that as a culture we’re hanging onto that terminology. I think midlife is more of an awakening. When we grow and start to switch things up. What’s your take on that? Has midlife historically gotten a bad rap? And do you think that’s changing?
Patti: I definitely think it’s changing. Yes, it’s gotten a bad rap. And I’m right there with you about the word crisis. I think it’s truly an awakening, I read a book, I think it’s called Midlife Awakening, but I’ll have to double-check…[I think midlife is] when we finally get quiet enough in our minds, because [your life has shifted]…If you’re married, you’re in a different phase of the marriage. If you have children, they’re in a different phase of growing up, or they’re in college. So [you now] have time to think, to complete an actual thought—remember the days when we used to have to pee with the door open because the kids were right there? Now…you have a little bit of downtime where you can complete a thought. And we’re asking ourselves, OK, who am I? What do I really want? And it’s the curiosity, I think, that really drives us in midlife. Crisis, no curiosity.
Maryann: Yes.
Patti: And some people might feel stuck or lost. And I don’t want to simplify the whole thing, because it’s not simple. It’s just that I think it’s exciting to not know exactly what’s going to happen next. But to be able to be curious enough to dig, and ask ourselves those questions and to be able to create a life, whatever the hell we want. I mean, it’s so exciting to me. It’s beautiful—ha, it’s a beautiful second act. It’s beautiful to have the opportunity. And not everybody does, I’m not gonna say that everybody has that opportunity. But at some point in time, you really need to make it a priority…to ask yourself the big questions on what do you want to do? Who do you want to be? What do you want to do with the rest of your life?
Maryann: I love that image you just painted of sitting in the bathroom with the door open. That really summed it up. It was a tough time. I just remember never being able to come up for air. And now I do feel like I have a little bit of that space for myself. And it’s amazing…There’s so much more time and freedom now to do all the things I love, and to explore new career options and to write more and to get to know my kids as older people. And I’m loving it. But Patti, you mentioned that some people may not have the luxury of being able to change easily, for whatever reason. For anybody out there who might be scared, a little apprehensive of what comes next or feeling like they don’t have the luxury to make a change (whether they don’t feel like they have the power within themselves, or because of their external circumstances), what would you say to them? Because I feel there’s always a way. Do you feel that way too?
Patti: Yeah, I think everything’s a choice. I’m going to use a friend of mine as an example. Say you have a circumstance where you’re caring for an elderly parent, and you’re the sole caregiver, it is tough. Or if you have a spouse that is disabled, or child that’s disabled, you might feel so much obligation to be there all the time, and that you’ve given up your life [in order to care for this person]. You have to remember that you can’t pour from an empty cup. And so I would say to people that feel that they are stuck or feel that they don’t have a choice: Find someone that you can trust or if you have the ability to hire someone that you trust, just on a regular basis. Maybe once a week you go to the gym or you go to have a coffee with a friend or go sit in a movie theater by yourself, or have that time early in the day where you get up early…You have to program your time. Time management is going to be really important. Like for us, you and I are writers, you have to find that time for that thing that drives you. And for us it’s writing. There are ways, you just have to look at it differently. And outside the box, it may not look the way it looks for everybody else that is taking their time to discover themselves. But you do have to find a way because if you don’t nourish yourself and your own soul, you’ll have nothing left to give to others. You have to make yourself a priority.
Maryann: Yeah, it is really hard to be penned in by those kinds of circumstances in midlife. I know, because even when my dog got sick and went blind, part of me actually felt resentful because I was like, finally my kids are growing up. My mom who has Alzheimer’s is finally settled somewhere where she’s happy and safe. And now the dog gets sick. Like, that’s the thing about life. Nothing is promised, there’s always going to be something at every turn. Right? And I love your suggestion to just get help. Don’t be afraid to ask for help. We were tested with that when we had young kids. We had to get some sort of help or we’d go crazy, right? And I think it’s the same thing if you’re a caregiver now in midlife. I think we need to take advantage of any opportunity we have to just do our own thing because honestly, this is our life and it is going to get more challenging as we age. But you can’t worry about it too much, because it just taints the present moment, right?
Patti: Absolutely. I call myself a recovering reactor. Because I used to throw my hands up in the air and freak out and start having anxiety about the what-ifs. And if the shit hit the fan, I felt like I was like, What am I going to do? And now, I think that I process things a lot differently. And I think that comes with wisdom and aging and realizing that it doesn’t serve a purpose when you are all upset about a situation. And so if you can calm yourself down, if you can get into the creative mind space of thinking outside the box, that’s really helpful…for navigating your next steps.
Maryann: That’s such a great suggestion. I’ve been tapping into my creative mind by doing ikebana, Japanese flower arranging. I find that it’s so meditative. And people think of meditation is just sitting, you know, crisscross applesauce and [reciting mantras], but there are actually so many ways to meditate and get into that productive space. You can walk, you can run, you can just take a stroll in nature, you can paint, you can write, you can journal…There are so many ways to come back to yourself. And I think that as I get older I am embracing that more, whereas I was younger, it was like, go, go, go. Now I still want to accomplish so much, but I realize when I’m burned out and I take the time to center myself. Do you do that more often as well?
Patti: Yeah, I think that I have periodic moments where I feel like I’m running out of time, because, you know, we don’t know how many good quality years we have left in life. And like you just said, tomorrow isn’t promised, so it’s important that you make the most of today. But I do try not to worry because you know, like you said, worrying is not going to solve any issues. Worrying is not going to change the future. What it does is rob you of the moment. So I think that it’s really important for us to just try and breathe and enjoy the time that we have instead of worrying [about] the future…and try to have something that’s exciting for us to want to discover for tomorrow. But you don’t have to have it etched in stone, you don’t need to be rigid about it. I used to be very rigid about everything. I didn’t like the chaos of the not knowing; I liked to have everything planned out. But then I found out that the plan sucks, the plan is shit, the plan doesn’t work. And I learned to be more flexible like the willow tree…and I felt so much freer when I learned to let those things go. And again, I think it comes with aging and it comes with wisdom and knowing how you don’t don’t want to feel is just as important as trying to figure out how you do want to feel.
Maryann: I love that knowing how you don’t want to feel that’s a really great tip. I want to ask you about your your community that you’ve built through beautiful second app because you have an online community and a membership. And you say that one of your goals for that group is to help people dream bigger. I love that I just posted something about dreaming bigger, because I had another podcast guest a couple years ago who said, you know that women don’t dream big enough, they they’re limiting themselves to these tiny little goals, when you can have the ability to dream as big as you want. Make it as make it as huge as you feel like dreaming. Why is that something that you want for the women or the people in your group? And do you find that people can start expanding their dreams?
Patti: Yeah, I think that when you have infinite possibilities in mind, then you get surprised, you know, sometimes people don’t even know what they want until they start like doing writing exercises to write down, okay, if money were no object, if there was no hurdles whatsoever, just for just a minute, sit down and just mind dump on a piece of paper, everything that is exciting to you anything and everything. If infinite possibilities, just mind dump, write it down, the things that people come up with are astonishing. And they sit back and they look at their list. And they surprise themselves. And that’s like, Okay, now, pick your top three, right, pick your top three of those things that you just wrote down on that you’re the most curious about that you think and don’t worry about whether it’s a Oh, I’m not able to because of this, or I don’t have the money or I don’t have the education or, you know, this would never happen for me just put all of those things are the limiting beliefs out of your mind? And pick those top three. And then why not? Why not? Right? I’m not suggesting that everybody gets to be a rocket scientist. And I’m not suggesting that everybody gets to be on Broadway. But what I am suggesting is, you’ve got to push yourself a little bit and get out of your comfort zone, because that’s where the magic is. And before I you know, I remember times when I would tell myself that I should or shouldn’t, I hate that word should. Because that, that just that is such a loaded word. Because it doesn’t come from a place of your inner self, it that comes from a responsibility that you have somehow carried around with you that you think is something that you ought to do, instead of what you want to do. So if you remove the word should, and just go for the things that you’re really interested in, you can still be a part of Let’s hypothetically, a little boy that wanted to always be a major league baseball player, but he never his dream never came true. In the older years, why don’t you just start bowling baseball, and you can go to make a bucket list of going to all of the professional stadiums or you know, or you can join a team, you can still play, you can play I mean, there’s so many things that we can do to bring the joy into our lives. Instead of having all the limiting beliefs of what we can’t do, or because of what we should be doing or what it looks like to our family or friends. I just think that people really need to dream bigger so that they can really find their joy, push the envelope, get out of their comfort zone and see what they’re made of.
Maryann: You know, I still hear women friends of mine, say I should or I shouldn’t or I’m too old for this or I’m too old for that. It’s just I feel like, we can say this all we want, like, don’t say these things. Don’t limit yourself. But it’s still like almost innate. It’s built into us because we were raised with these types of limiting beliefs. I mean, I’ve been trying to figure out how do you get people to undo all of that it takes time, it takes repetition, right? It takes effort. Do you have any tricks that you use with people in your membership? What works?
Patti: Yeah, I tell everybody what works for me. I’ve learned that whatever we do with our mind, it’s a muscle. So whatever you’re used to doing as a habit in the past, it’s really going to be hard to retrain it and to rewire your brain because it’s a muscle, you have to flex it, you have to use it, you’re going to have to make new pathways. The neural pathways are used to going a certain direction, because that’s the way you’ve always seen things done things. If you want to break that cycle. You have to know that one, you got to create a new pathway, get a machete and go the, you know the unwatched trail with your little machete and create a new pathway create new new wiring in your brain new narrows? Yes, it’s going to be uncomfortable. It’s not going to seem familiar. It’s you’re going to want to keep going the other direction. But the more you tread on the pathway that you want to really go, it’s going to make it an easier course for you and eventually it becomes that how And eventually you will feel familiar that way. And then the old, the old way of thinking, the old pathways will fall by the wayside, and it will become easier for you. But you have to practice it. Just like meditation. Just like if you wake up in the morning, and you’re used to doing things a certain way, but you know, you no longer want to do that. It’s not going to feel comfortable in the beginning, the more you do it, the easier it is. And that’s the same way is with with women and men who, specifically women who think they should or shouldn’t do something, or that’s not, you know, oh, I would never do anything like that. Well, but do you want to is the question and if you want to, you have to give yourself permission to get out of your own damn way and start walking the new path, it will get easier. And if you don’t like it, guess what? You try it for a few months. And you’re like, OK, this is not for me. It’s OK to change your damn mind.
Maryann: Yes! And I like to tell people to rewrite their story. Maybe because I’m a writer, and I do anything. I write everything down. But I mentioned this on several podcasts. But when I was I think eighth grade ninth, I was in high school. I had a teacher who made us all right, are obituaries. And she said, just write everything you want to accomplish in your life and be remembered for. And I still go back to that. I don’t have a physical copy of it. But in my mind, I know what I wrote. And whenever I’m like veering off path, I say to myself, but I wanted that. Do I still want that? Yes. So I’m still going for it. Right? Like I reminds myself. And then I think also in midlife, you can write that obituary or that story, whatever you want to call it, you can write it again. And like to your point, you can rewrite it, you can alter it. But I think if you get things down on paper, sometimes it solidifies it, it shows you things are possible. And you can kind of like show the steps you’re gonna take, like if a woman wants to, for example, become an interior designer, say I am an interior designer, sign up for a class, right mentor with somebody start a Pinterest board where you’re reading an expert, like there are just so many ways to get to where you want to go. And I also like to say start with one small thing. Like when I decided like you that I wanted to podcast, I just bought the mic. I was so afraid of podcasting. And I said, if I buy the mic, I’m gonna make myself accountable. And you know, it was a rather expensive mic. So I couldn’t just leave it in the box. I took it out and I started. That’s another motivational trick.
Patti: Yeah, and saying that you’re doing something rather than I’m trying something. When you say you’re doing it? Yes, there’s, there’s a much more powerful meaning behind that. So if you’re in a conversation with somebody at a dinner party or something, and they ask, what do you do, maybe you have only recorded two or three episodes, and they haven’t even gone live yet. But when you say I’m a podcaster, there’s power behind that there, it makes you it just it’s an affirmation that you’re saying to yourself, that yes, this is who I am or what I’m doing right now. I just like as a writer, if you’re writing but you’re not published yet, you can still say you’re a writer, because you’re writing if you’re writing everyday, you waking up, you have that you know, that there does my brain, you have like the behavioral, you know, patterns that every morning that this is what you do, then you’re a writer, it doesn’t mean that you’re published. But it doesn’t mean that you won’t be either. You just have to say it, and mean it. And when you do say it and mean it to yourself, then you’re I think you’re that’s when you end up manifesting more and more of that in your life.
Maryann: And if you’re very intentional about what you’re doing, also, I find that that really helps. So Patti, I just want to mention that you’ve experienced a couple of losses in your life the last few years and most recently, the death of your father. First of all, I am so sorry, my heart breaks for you and your family. How are you doing?
Patti: Yes, I lost my father on May 4. My birthday was May 6, so it was two days before my birthday, so I’ll never forget the date. So I just lost him a few weeks ago. And of course, I was completely devastated and distraught when it happened, because I was a blindsided; it was one of those unexpected things. And I thought that I was dealing with it OK. And I had a trip that was planned from last fall, and paid for, for me to go to England with a friend of mine. And the first thing is, well, I’ve got to contact my friend and tell her that I’m out. But my whole family was like, No, you’re going. I was like, But I didn’t feel right about it. And they said, that’s not what dad would have wanted for you. So I really thought long and hard about it and [finally realized that] they were absolutely right; he would never have wanted me to give up on an adventure—because he was very much an adventure person…But when I came home on the 19th, I had so much jet-lag that, by the 20th, I completely fell apart. I realized that had not processed it like I thought I had. And I had a complete and utter total breakdown all day. I didn’t think I was going to recover…
But then what happened is what I think probably happens with most people, is eventually you reach acceptance. And the acceptance part is where I’m at right now. I have lost other people, I lost my sister to suicide, I lost my mother a couple of years ago. And I’ve lost numerous friends, as we do. As we get older. I mean, this is going to happen, it’s the natural course of things…The older we get, the more people we’re going to lose. It’s just that when you lose somebody that’s such an integral part of your life…My dad…was the backbone of the family, and I didn’t know how I was going to navigate my life without him….And today, I’m just learning to breathe, learning to accept, and just taking it one moment at a time…I talk to people all the time about when you just take it in small, small portions, one moment at a time, and stay in that moment. And accept yourself without judgment for however it is that you’re feeling. I don’t hold onto it, but I allow myself to feel what bubbles up, let it wash over me and then let it move through me instead of holding on to it….
However, I don’t believe that grief is something we ever get over. I believe it’s something we learn to live with. And because I feel that way, I think that I’m going to be healthier in my mind, and in my spirit and in my soul….The grief is now part of who I am…I was so blessed to have had such a fantastic father…And yeah, [many] people go through these types of losses, whether it’s a spouse, a sibling, a child, a parent, these people that are closest to us a best friend, whoever it is that you’re you’re grieving. Don’t try to get over it. Don’t try and tell yourself that you have a time limit because that’s impossible. It’s impossible to put that kind of pressure on yourself. Or to expect it of others, by the way, because there are some people that say, gosh, aren’t you over that yet? How insensitive is that?
Maryann: Don’t ever say that to anyone. Yeah, you and I were discussing this before we started recording. And I told you my father died when he was only 46. I was in college when it happened, and I still haven’t gotten over it completely. I probably never will. But I’ve learned to live with it—like you said, and I think that was a beautiful way of phrasing it. And I’ve used it in certain during certain times of my life: What would my dad have done? And, you know, my dad didn’t get to be 50, I remember telling myself when I turned 50. So he would want me to enjoy this and to keep going with whatever dreams I’m pursuing. And I talk to him sometimes still. I’ll be like, Dad, what should I do? You know, he comes to me when I’m meditating sometimes and you never lose that. I think losing people at a young age kind of prepares you because in midlife we’re going to start losing people, [if we haven’t already]. It’s a part of life that we’re all going to have to deal with, unfortunately. But you’re right, we have to go on. We have to live.
Patti: Well, I think that the most important thing and the biggest tribute I think we can give to those we have lost is to live fully. So when I was on that trip, just days after my father passed, I didn’t go carrying a big weight of guilt. I went knowing that I am still here for a reason. And if I’m here, I damn sure shouldn’t waste it. And that’s not where we’re at. We’re still on this level. We’re still breathing in and out every day that we wake up. You have an obligation to yourself and even to the people that love you to live your best life so that you can bring your best self so that you are that ripple effect in the world, that when you smile, it’s touching somebody else, when you give a compliment, or you extend some kindness, that is a ripple effect. That’s why we’re here. So that is our job, to find joy for ourselves, and to live fully so that we can be an extension of all that greatness and goodness in the world.
Maryann: I love that. And also, if you have kids, think of the example you set for them by living your life at this stage, right? I forgot who said this, but someone once told me that when you walk into a room, be the love in the room. Like, don’t bring all your baggage. I mean, you have may have that stuff going on. But just try to tap into the love and the life that you’re living right. And I am so glad you took that trip, because I think travel can be really rejuvenating. And it can be a great way to reconnect with yourself, to process things, to tap into parts of yourself that you may have lost. I know you love to travel. What does travel do for you, and where are you going next?
Patti: So I’ve been traveling by myself a lot since 2015. And it was really my husband’s idea. It was to write, because I would get distracted when I was in the middle of writing a book a book. And you know, it’s dinnertime, you have to stop and break and prepare the food. Or you feel guilty because your spouse should be cleaning the house to answer phone calls, do all of the things. And I would get frustrated because I’d be right in the middle of something really good. And then I would lose my train of thought and when I came back it was gone. So he said, you need to go somewhere where you’re not distracted; take a trip and just go and just take your laptop and write. And I was like, can I really do that? Like who does that? It felt so indulgent. I just it felt like totally unnecessary. But he really kind of pushed the issue. And when I did it the first time I was hooked. And since then about every six months, I go somewhere by myself for at least three or four days. And then every once in a while I’ll take a bigger trip. But to me travel is very therapeutic. Because everywhere you go there you are, you can’t escape you. You have time to really think about things. You have time to get to know yourself, to do all the things. I go out to eat alone a lot. I’m very comfortable with it. As a matter of fact, I thoroughly enjoy it. Some of my friends are like, Oh my gosh, do you take a book? What do you do? I’m like, no, I don’t. I don’t sit on my phone the whole time either. I try and find a window seat. I order all of the courses, and I’ll spend two hours in a restaurant.
Maryann: I order all the appetizers.
Patti: Yes, I do all the appetizers. I do the glass of champagne or a glass of wine, I do the entree, I do the dessert. I do the after-dinner cappuccino, I do the whole thing. And I’ll spend two hours going to dinner with myself and I think that it’s something that if you have the opportunity—again, yes, it’s a bit indulgent—but if you have the opportunity to travel by yourself, do it. And go someplace that’s inspiring. I like I go to the ocean a lot. The ocean is near and dear to my heart. That’s where I have my most clear thinking. I’ll walk barefoot on the beach…and connect with the Earth, connect with [my] mind with [my] soul, [my] spirit. And when you go back to your everyday life, you are so much better for it. In fact, I did an entire podcast on traveling alone, because I think it’s so important to spend that quality time with yourself….like you would with a best friend. Because you really are your own best friend.
Maryann: You have to be, it’s so true. And it’s funny you say the ocean because a Nicki Bonfilio, an intuitive counselor that I had on the show, told me offline to go to the ocean whenever I have self doubt. And I found that so interesting. Because I live here in San Francisco not too far from the ocean, it’s like a mile away, I could walk there. But I love your idea of solo travel and solo dining. I know so many women in our age group who are doing that now, including me. I eat alone more than I’ve ever eaten alone. And I love the idea of traveling alone. My little fantasy is to go rent a cottage somewhere in Italy and write my book. I’m really trying to figure out ways to make that happen. But, you know, I’m talking about it, I’m planting little seeds with my husband. Like, you know, I’d be so much more productive. But I think this is a problem that a lot of women have because you mentioned earlier all the distractions. We put everybody else first, even now. For instance, my son is a junior in high school and I say to myself, Oh, but his studies and his applying to college is crucial. It’s more important than my work, or I’ll think my husband’s [career is more important] because he’s [currently] making more money than I am. Or I think, I have to take care of [this person or that person] and I put myself last. I squeeze my work into this in-between time. And I read an interesting fact, on somebody’s Instagram the other day, they were pointing out this study that said that….We’ve all heard this that married men live longer than unmarried men. But we didn’t know necessarily that conversely, married women don’t live as long as unmarried women. And the reason is because they’re usually in the role of caregiver and they worry about everybody. They worry, is my husband’s blood pressure OK? Is my kid gonna be okay, driving in that car with these people? You know, we worry too much. And we don’t spend enough time nurturing ourselves. It’s like what they tell you in the airplane: Put your own [oxygen] mask on first.
Patti: Absolutely. It’s so true. I am still working on that part of myself. But because I used to have anxiety attacks, and I had clinical depression in my 20s and 30s, I realized that I don’t want to go back down that road anymore. Plus, it’s doesn’t serve a purpose. All it does is make me miserable. And it’s going to affect my health. And we don’t change. We think that by doing certain things, we’re going to change the laws of the universe. But we are not in control. We think we are control. So whatever is going to be is going to be, and instead I try to turn it around and just pray for the highest good, I don’t pretend to know what the highest good is. I know that’s the universe’s job, God’s source’s, whatever you want to call it. But I just pray for the highest good for all, meaning for my children, for myself, for my friends and family, for whatever the ripple effect is for whatever circumstance is going to happen. I just pray for the highest good. And when I let go, it’s so good. Because it’s like, you get that tension as moms do. We get it in our chest or in our heart space or our stomach and, you know, shoulders come up to our ears because we’re so worried. But when you do let that worry go, you just feel freer and…can be more productive, because you’re not carrying that burden of fear around anymore.
Maryann: We all have to let go of fear. OK, Patti, I have one more question for you: What do you know now that you didn’t know when you were younger?
Patti: I know that no amount of worrying is going to help anything in my life. So it’s my job to take care of myself so that I can take care of others. I can’t always put everybody else first above me. And the worrying that I had from before, I’m literally a different person, the person you’re talking to today is so much different from the person I was 20, 30 years ago, I have the same ideals. But I don’t have the same way of dealing with life. And I’m so much happier for it…We have no control over what the world is going to bring to us tomorrow. All we have is today…And I choose to enjoy it. I choose…to be responsible for whatever energy I bring. I’m in charge of my own feelings and my own emotions. And I need to make sure that I keep that in check and realize that this is the moment I’m in and it’s the only moment I can control right now. And that’s it, nothing more. And it’s making me a much happier person.
Maryann: That’s a big one. And I agree 100 percent. I also think I’m a better problem solver, because I don’t freak out when things happen anymore. I’m learning to just say to myself, I’m resourceful. I’ll find a solution. The creative solutions will come. Well, Patti, tell us what’s next for you and where our listeners can find you online.
Patti: Beautiful Second Act, is celebrating its two-year anniversary. You can find me on Instagram and Facebook [see show notes for links]. If you’d like to join The Facebook group, we have Sunday morning coffee live every Sunday. It’s where we dive deep and talk about personal things as well as things going on in midlife. And next for me is I’m searching for the right agent to partner with me for my novel. It’s the first in a trilogy. I’m really excited about it—it’s another romance novel.
Maryann: I love that you’re a romance novelist—because who doesn’t need a little romance. I write a lot about my grandmother, who became a widow when she was young. I once wrote about the fact that always seemed a little prudish—like if you were watching a movie with her and a kissing scene came on, she’d be like, yuck. But if you went into her bedroom, she had stacks and stacks of Harlequin romance novels, Silhouette romance novels on her nightstand. So that woman had an inner life, you know?…Patti, it was such a joy having you here. I love that we both have the word “beautiful” in our brand titles. Good luck to you on finding an agent and all that good stuff.
Patti: Thanks so much for having me. It’s been a blast.
Outro: Thank you so much for tuning in to More Beautiful. Please visit Morebeautifulproject.com for show notes and bonus content. And it would mean so much if you could subscribe, rate and review on Apple podcasts or wherever you’re listening. Together, let’s continue to change the conversation around aging.
