The following is a transcript of this episode. It has been edited for clarity.
Teaser: I know, I know you’re sick of people telling you how important it is to meditate. Well, you’re going to hear it once more today but with a spin. Aside from reinforcing how much meditation can improve your life, we’re also going to assure you that meditation doesn’t have to be hard or time-consuming or require a spiritual practice. There’s no need to sit on the ground with your legs crossed or to chant or to suppress your every thought. Truth is, there are so many different ways to meditate, ones that don’t require any of that. Today, I’m talking to an award-winning meditation expert about how you can finally find the meditation practice that’s right for you so you can start reaping all the benefits from reduced stress to improved relationships and health. Get ready because today might finally be the day you start meditating.
Intro: Welcome to More Beautiful, the podcast for women rewriting the midlife playbook. I’m Maryann LoRusso, and I invite you to join me and a guest each week as we strive for a life that’s more adventurous, more fulfilling, and more beautiful than ever before.
Maryann: I am so pleased to welcome my next guest, Lori Saitz, the founder and CEO of Zen Rabbit, and host of the podcast Fine is a Four-Letter Word. An award-winning author, speaker and broadcaster, Lori is on a mission to teach the world to be calm and grounded no matter what’s going on. Lori is also a nationally-recognized gratitude and meditation expert who guides entrepreneurs and business leaders from stressed and chaotic to peaceful and focused and shows them how to live a sabbatical life, which is when they then start seeing their sales increase, their relationships strengthen, and their overall health improve. Sounds good to me! Hey, Lori, welcome to the show.
Lori: Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here.
Maryann: Lori, there’s a great childhood story connected to your company, Zen Rabbit. Can you start off by telling us about that? While you’re at it, tell us how you went from having a cookie company to becoming an empowerment coach and speaker. I’m so interested in that.
Lori: Absolutely! Well, that can take up the whole show. So when I started that cookie company, which was called Zen Rabbit Baking Company, that’s when I came up with the name of Zen Rabbit, because when people would taste these cookies (that were based on a family recipe)—when people would taste them, they’d be like, “Oh my gosh, this reminds me of something grandma used to make.” And then they would be transported back to their zen, blissful place of baking in the kitchen with grandma. So I thought, when I was a baby, my mom bought a stuffed rabbit and put it in the crib, and quickly realized that she could take all the other animals out, but the rabbit had to be in the crib, or I wasn’t sleeping. As I got older, I would rub her ears for comfort. You know, like a blankie or something. There’s a picture on my website under the About page, where you can see me two and a half years old with this rabbit in my clutches, and I’m in the zen, blissful place, rubbing her ears. She would put me in the zen meditative state. And so that’s kind of what the cookies would do for people, so I named the company Zen Rabbit. Even though at the time I never called her my zen rabbit. We didn’t we didn’t use those terms, but that’s essentially what she was. From a marketing standpoint, which I have 20—I don’t even want to say how many years—30-something years of marketing background. Nobody ever forgets the name Zen Rabbit.
Maryann: Yeah, I can imagine that’s true. I think every one of us as a child probably had a form of meditation, but we didn’t know it was meditation like rubbing a stuffed animal or sucking your thumb or a pacifier. It’s so interesting.
Lori: Yeah, I had the pacifier too. I actually—I don’t know if I’ve ever admitted this publicly—you want to be the first? You want to breaking news? I had that pacifier until I was five years old. My mom I’m sure it was like, “Can you give it up now? Can you give it up?”
Maryann: I remember we had a pediatrician tell me my daughter had to throw hers away. She was like two, and we went through this whole process with her. I’ll never forget. I felt like the worst mother that day, and I’m sure my daughter is going to be talking about this in therapy. We made her throw away her binkies and I remember her, as she was tossing them in the garbage with her little hand. She was like, “I’m a big girl now.” So that’s going to be the thing that she’s going to be talking about [in therapy]. Okay, anyway, moving on. So Lori, our conversation today is on meditation, and why it’s a good idea that we should all start embracing a midlife meditation practice if you haven’t already. So many health and wellness experts encourage us to meditate so often that we almost take that advice for granted. But meditation really does help with stress, anxiety, and a slew of other issues that can crop up. Can you tell us why we should be meditating?
Lori: Because it changes you, it changes you mentally, and it changes you physically. You’re already going through so many changes that are affecting your emotional health, your mental health, and your physical health. Finding that balance can be difficult. When you stop and allow yourself the time—and we can talk about the myths and misconceptions around it. A lot of people think that you have to set aside an hour of time [to meditate]. You could set aside five minutes, and still get all of the benefits of it. People extend that time longer, because once you get into doing it just feels so good that you want to stay in this place. Okay, so let’s start with five minutes, and focus on your breathing, for example. By doing that you’re oxygenating your blood and your brain, and you’re just calming everything in your nervous system. We don’t often take any time to do that. That’s why we run around all the time so stressed out, so overwhelmed. Oh my god, the sky is falling. We don’t stop to go, “Wait, let me step back for a second.” And just breathe. That’s one of the things about meditation, there are so many others. So meditation can contribute to increased creativity, which means you are better at problem-solving, again, which will reduce stress because you’ve got some issue that you’re worrying about. I don’t know how I’m gonna fix it. Step back. Ideas will come to you. We don’t have to do all of this stuff on our own. We think we need to come up with the solution and we need to make things happen. When you practice meditation, you allow yourself to hear your own inner voice, whether you call that intuition, or God or whatever it is, answers will start coming to you and you won’t have to stress so much about finding them, like going out and finding them or making them up. They show up.
Maryann: I love that. Later in the show, we’re going to talk about some of those misconceptions that you just referred to and how we can meditate if we don’t want to do it the traditional way, whatever that is. But just to backtrack on the reasons why—when you and I met to chat a couple of weeks ago, we talked about the illusion of “everything is fine.” Many women walk around responding to the question of, “How are you?” with, “Everything is fine.” But you say midlife is often about having this undercurrent of suck. (And that’s a quote!) That’s your quote: “An undercurrent of suck,” which I found so amusing and spot-on. Can you explain what you meant by that? And why you think midlife can be a challenging time for us?
Lori: Yeah, because a lot of people have a life that from the outside looks amazing. The family, the job, the success, whatever it is, from the outside looks amazing. But you’re here [thinking to yourself], I feel like something’s missing or something’s off. And I don’t know what it is, and then beating yourself up because, [you feel like you] shouldn’t be complaining because look at all of this that I have. Yet, like there is this deep undercurrent of suck—you can’t put your finger on what it is, it just feels [like] something feels off. It’s like you’re being sucked down by something, or to use a word that I use, and then people make fun of me—yucky. It’s just yucky. I don’t know exactly what it is. That’s why I use the term undercurrent of suck. It’s just this malaise, maybe? This feeling of, I don’t know, but I should be happy because look at all of this that I have. Why can’t I be happy with this? What is wrong with me that I can’t be happy? And then you’re into a horrible spiral of there must be something wrong with me that I can’t be happy with this. All of that is really because your soul is crying out for more. Your soul is asking for growth, and that’s scary, because now you have to do something.
Maryann: Your soul is asking for growth. That is amazing. You know, it’s so interesting because a lot of us in our generation grew up with this mentality of we have to be good girls, we have to stop complaining, we have to accept what’s given to us. I know in my family, that was a very common bit of rhetoric to say: What do you have to complain about? Or I remember I had this one aunt, [who] married a man with some money, and she lived a very nice lifestyle. And I remember, she had depression. Even as a little kid, I could see that she had depression. Some of the women in my family would say, “What does she have to complain about?” And even as a kid I knew, wow, there’s something going on that they’re not seeing. Because, as they say, it’s an inside job—depression or dissatisfaction— and it’s a soul issue. It’s not, “What do I have?” It’s not a material issue. So I love that you point that out. How do we undo that? Because that’s years of conditioning, right? Meditation is one of the ways and we’re gonna get to that, but generally speaking, we’re up against a lot, right?
Lori: It’s conditioning. And like you said, we’ve been conditioned since we were born, to buy into certain things like hard work is the way you get to success. And you take what you’re given. Name any belief that you have, it was programmed in very, very early at some point. And so in order to change those beliefs, [for example] I have to be working all the time, otherwise, I’m a slacker, or I don’t have any worth unless I’m productive. Or, I always need to learn more, I don’t know enough to do whatever it is you’d like to do. The only way to change those beliefs is to reprogram the wiring of your brain. That sounds complicated, right? But that’s one of the things that meditation can help with. And there are other ways to do that as well [such as] hypnotherapy and EFT (which is tapping) and many different modalities for doing that. But essentially, that’s what you have to do is rewire your brain, rewire those pathways in your brain, otherwise, nothing’s going to change. You have to reach into that other-than-conscious mind and change the beliefs on that level. It’s like digging down—so if you just throw some seeds on the top of the ground, they might grow, but they might get eaten by birds, or they might get washed away in a storm or something like that. If you dig down and bury them, and then water and nurture them, they have a much stronger chance of growing. And so it’s the same kind of thing when you’re talking about reprogramming beliefs in your brain, in your mind.
Maryann: Yeah, that’s a great analogy with the seeds. Like with everything else, it’s a muscle memory, right? Like, you just got to keep doing it, keep doing it. And this is where meditation comes in. So in terms of using meditation to tackle that “undercurrent of suck,” what are some of the benefits that we can probably expect to achieve through a meditation practice from the onset? Can we break the benefits down in terms of the physical, the psychological and the spiritual benefits?
Lori: Yeah, there are immediate benefits and there are long-term benefits. The immediate benefits we’ve already talked about a little bit in terms of when you start focusing on your breathing, you’re just calming your nervous system. Immediately after you finish a meditation you’ll just be calmer. Like nothing. Meditation doesn’t change anything in the world around you. Like if you’re living in chaos and drama, that’s not going to go away. Right? But your response to it is going to change. You’re going to be better able to handle it. Resilience is a big buzzword these days. Meditation makes you more resilient. It improves your resilience. It improves and enhances your creativity. It improves your focus. If you can be more focused, you can be more productive. And meditation helps with all of these things. Better sleep—
Maryann: Who doesn’t need more of that?
Lori: Right!? Especially in midlife, your sleep gets disrupted a lot of times. So, having a calmer mind allows you to sleep better. I’m still working on getting rid of night sweats.
Maryann: That’s a whole other episode…
Lori: [Meditation] can actually improve your relationships because when you meditate, you’re going to be less likely to get drawn into conflict. Therefore, your relationships are going to improve, you have a better empathy, or emotional intelligence. You are more empathetic, and, therefore less likely to get drawn into conflict. So, automatically, your relationships get better.
Maryann: So true. When I when I am meditating regularly, I kind of more quickly come to the place of [thinking] none of this matters. You just feel grounded. And I said earlier, it’s a muscle memory, meaning like, the more I do it, the more I can go back to that place of serenity, without having to really think about it. It’s just incredible. But it’s funny when you were talking earlier about how you can’t escape your reality, I was thinking we don’t need meditation for that—we need levitation. I was thinking in my head, maybe we could just float away, like just get away from it all!
Lori: Yeah. Well, if you get into a meditation deep enough, it will feel like that.
Maryann: That’s okay. I would love to feel that way.
Lori: Going back to that comment about [how] the outside circumstances don’t change—Wayne Dyer had a quote, that when you change what you look at, the things you look at change. So when you change how you’re looking at things, because you’re not looking at them [from a] stressed, overwhelmed, burned out background, you’re just looking at it. It changes. You’re like, “Okay, this is what is—now what?” instead of getting drawn into [feeling as if] everything’s on fire, I’ve got to run, I got to do something. This situation will then change even though the situation hasn’t really changed. Does that make sense?
Maryann: Yes. But I wouldn’t know about that chaos, because I’ve never experienced that ever. [laughter] Oh my God, my kids listen to my some of these episodes, and they’re like, “Mom, are you really that relaxed? Are you as relaxed as you say you are right now? Because we’ve seen you in your moments…”
Lori: Well, again, we’re all human. So we’re going to have human responses and reactions occasionally,
Maryann: Right. We can only get better, we can only improve ourselves. Lori, in terms of the process, a lot of us think about meditation, we immediately think, “Oh, I can’t I can’t sit on the floor, criss-cross applesauce, chanting silly things.” But that’s such a limited view, right? Can you tell all of us what meditation means to you, and perhaps give us some examples of what it can look like if you’re not into sitting on the floor chanting.
Lori: Yes, I’m always around dispelling this misconception because people are like, I’m not good at meditating because they think of some image they have in their head of a monk that’s been practicing for their entire life that sits for hours at a time, cross-legged on a mat in complete silence, with no thoughts going through their head, which is not how most of us function. So first, the definition of meditation for me is getting into a space where you are quiet enough to hear that inner voice. What is your inner voice telling you? We are so inundated with outside voices—friends, family, community, media, everybody wants to tell you how to live, what would be best for you to do, and how to think. What is really best for you is listening to your inner voice because that’s where the truth is, that’s the truth for you. What is true for you—that’s the only way to hear it is to give yourself that space. So allowing yourself this space to hear that meditation however you get there. It could be that traditional meditation, but you could be doing a guided meditation, just quieting yourself down, focusing on your breathing for three minutes just sitting or walking. [If] you’re in the middle of something that’s stressing you out, just stop [and think to yourself], “Okay, wait, let me focus on my breathing.” Put your hand on your abdomen and your chest and just breathe in really deeply through your lungs, expanding your lungs, expanding your abdomen all the way down, and then letting it go and just do that for 60 [seconds] or 120 [seconds] or three minutes. That could be a form of meditation. Walking in nature, without your electronics [can be a form of meditation as well] because, again, we are so distracted. It’s really difficult for somebody to go without their electronics. Like, have you ever left the house and forgotten your phone?
Maryann: Oh, it’s like the worst thing that can happen. Yeah.
Lori: Right. It’s like I just left my arm behind. But nobody dies. It’s okay. So, going for a walk in nature, for example. If you have to take your phone, I get it, but just don’t bring headphones. Don’t listen to it. Put it on silent so you have it in case of emergency. Even if you live in an urban area, go for a walk without electronics plugged in and pay attention to all of the things you’re seeing, like really pay attention. What are you hearing? What are you smelling? Using all of your senses and activating them—that could be a form of meditation. Some people will report that they feel like they’re getting into a meditative state by doing dishes, or coloring. I love mandala coloring pages. Journaling could be a form of meditation. So many different ways that don’t involve [sitting criss cross on the floor]. So let’s come back to actually sitting and what you might consider a traditional meditation. A lot of people can’t sit still. I recommend putting on your favorite hype song. On my podcast, the last question I always ask people is: What is your hype song? Putting on your hype song and dancing around for however long the song is—three minutes [or so]—get out all of that energy and then sit.
Maryann: I love that—a hype song. I’m gonna go find mine right after this. Is it too personal to ask what yours is?
Lori: No, no. I mean, I ask everybody. The one that I typically give is Carrie Underwood’s “Champion.”
Maryann: Oh, that’s a good song.
Lori: Yeah. Scream it out at the top of your lungs, nobody’s paying attention. That song gets me hyped up.
Maryann: If anybody needs one, I have actually More Beautiful playlist on Spotify. If you look for it, I have a lot of female empowerment hype songs.
Lori: Oh, cool. Yeah, I’ll have to have to get on that.
Maryann: Those are all such great ideas, Lori. And you know, it’s interesting, because I took a course in transcendental meditation. I think I mentioned that to you. First of all, when you do that, you feel like you’re in a secret society, because they don’t want you to say [or] dispel what goes on behind those doors. But I will tell you that their method is a little different, because they don’t ask you to fight the voices and fight the thoughts. They kind of ask you to kind of float under them. And it’s more complicated than that, but that worked for me, because I don’t think it’s possible to suppress all those thoughts. We have so many, especially women, we have so many things running through our head, right? So I love that you’re telling us to get all that angst out first, as much as that as possible out through a song and dancing or whatever. And then that we don’t necessarily have to block all those thoughts, because that is really tricky.
Lori: Yes, you’re right, that is virtually impossible. And it’s not expected of meditation. I’ve never taken TM, I was introduced to meditation when I was 10, my mom took my brother and me to meditation course, that’s now known as the Silva Method. So I had that as a basis, but then I didn’t practice it for 35 years. But what I tell people about the thoughts coming into your head is recognize them, acknowledge them, “Ah, I’m thinking about that.” Then bring yourself back to the meditation teacher’s voice if you’re listening to a guided meditation, or to your breathing or to whatever it is. That is actually part of meditating—seeing those thoughts, recognizing that they’re coming in, and then, kind of like you were saying, just letting them go. And that might happen every 10 seconds. You might have to bring yourself back every 10 seconds. That is part of the practice. Andrew Huberman has a podcast [with] an episode on meditation and he talks about that that actually makes you more focused outside of meditation. When you’re not meditating, you are better able to focus because you’ve been practicing while you’re in meditation, noticing the thoughts, and letting them go and noticing and letting them go and refocusing, every time you’re letting them go, you’re refocusing back into that meditation makes you better at focusing outside of meditation.
Maryann: So again, it’s a muscle, right?
Lori: Yep.
Maryann: So you know, a lot of people will say that there’s a difference between meditation and just breathing exercises. So, going back to TM, again, we’re supposed to do it for 20 minutes, and they tell you that you can’t really get all the benefits in five minutes. But I do it for five minutes sometimes when I only have five minutes, and I think it helps wherever you can fit it in sometimes. So for the skeptics out there who might say no, Maryann, five minutes is not meditating, it’s just getting your breathing under control. What do you say to that?
Lori: Do what works for you. I mean, this is why people feel meditation is not accessible to them. Because the other people have made so many rules around it. There’s no rules. If you have five minutes, and that’s all you’ve got, do that. It’s going to benefit you. Again, Andrew Huberman in that same podcast said, three minutes a day has research-proven benefits.
Maryann: Just three minutes?
Lori: Three minutes.
Maryann: Yeah, everybody’s got three minutes. I say everyone’s got it.
Lori: Yeah. I mean, if you don’t have three minutes, you have some serious issues.
Maryann: You got to figure that out first. One thing I found so fascinating when we talked earlier, you said that feeling and expressing gratitude can actually be a very important part of a meditation or spiritual practice. Can you elaborate on that?
Lori: Yes. I’m not an expert on world religions, but from what I do know, every religion has an element of gratitude and talks about the importance of gratitude in it. Aside from that, as an energy—because we are all energetic beings, this is quantum physics. (And again, not a quantum physicist, but I studied some of this stuff.) Energetically, gratitude is the highest energetic vibration you can get to. It’s there with love, and joy. So when you are living in the energetic vibration of gratitude, you’re just energetically happier. Did you ever notice when you’re having a great day, you have like great things happen? This is why because you become more magnetic to more good things. When you’re living in a state of gratitude, more things to be grateful for show up. That is not a coincidence. That’s how the universe works. Conversely, if you are looking for things to complain and criticize about and that’s where you live, more things to complain and criticize will show up in your world.
Maryann: It’s so true. When I’m in one of my moods, I don’t even hang out with anybody. I’m at the point where I’ve realized no, I have to first get into a better place myself before I’m going to present myself to the world. And that’s not to say I can’t talk to my friends when things are bothering me. That’s different, right? But when you when you when you know that your energy is bad. I think the best thing you can do for yourself is to try to get back into that better place. Right?
Lori: Yes, exactly. What can you do to raise your vibration and we’re not negating emotions, like you’re gonna have emotions—sadness, anger, resentment, frustration—feel them, feel all of them, fully feel them, because what you resist persists. So feel it and work through it, and then find the gratitude. There’s always gratitude there, too. So where can you find that gratitude?
Maryann: Is meditation harder for some people? Are their distinct personality types who tend to be doubtful? And what would you say to those folks?
Lori: Well, there are definitely people who tend to be doubtful about meditation. My dad, for example. He just [regards it as] kind of, hokey, woowoo stuff, but to each his own. There is a form of meditation that everyone can find that works for them. But that’s the thing, it’s a matter of finding what it is. So not everybody’s going to be able to sit for even five minutes, maybe they’re just hyperactive and that’s just their condition. Like they can’t do that. And so maybe walking or running—I used to run a lot—you can get yourself into that state, where you’re just [in a] flow-state kind of thing.
Maryann: I love that. Love that state.
Lori: Yeah. I have heard swimmers get into [a meditative state] because you’re in the water and you’re not hearing anything else. You’re just doing the strokes. And that’s a form of meditation. I actually have a friend who has told me many times, I’m not good at meditation, but she was a D1 swimmer when she was in school. She admits she was doing it then, but she didn’t think of it as that.
Maryann: Right.
Lori: So I think everyone can meditate. It’s just a matter of finding the right thing for you. It’s like finding your style, when you’re talking about clothes. What’s your style, what fits you, what suits you?
Maryann: I talk to my kids a lot about that, that whole being in the flow thing, because that is the best feeling in the world, when you’re just absorbed in an activity, and the whole world around you just melts away and you could just do it for hours and you’re in such a calm place. I say this over and over again on the show, but I recently discovered ikebana, the Japanese art of flower arranging, and for me that’s been very meditative and calming. I also have running, which I love and I know a lot of other women do. So there are so many ways. I like that you just encourage that diversity, like go find your thing. Go find it, you don’t have to mold, right?
Lori: Right, because what it’s really about is turning off your mind as much as you can. Like we’ve already established, thoughts are going to come and go. But getting yourself into a place where you can recharge your batteries. And not always being “on”—going, going, going—for everyone else. Even for yourself, that that running list of to-do in your head—that’s not healthy.
Maryann: So you bring up two interesting things because I think there are two scenarios where I think meditation might come in handy. One, like you just mentioned, [is that] we’re always conditioned to work, work work, get things done, be achievers be, accomplish things. Can meditation over the long run help you realize that working harder doesn’t always equate to working smarter, and what has to change with us in midlife before we realize that we need to slow down, that we should slow down sometimes?
Lori: My thoughts on this are twofold. One, we reached the point in midlife where we’re reevaluating everything. We had talked earlier about that whole like the term midlife crisis, which I also dislike as much as you do.
Maryann: Yes, despise it. It’s the first thing that comes up when you google like midlife, “midlife crisis” just pops up.
Lori: It’s awful because it’s not a crisis. No one’s dying because they’ve reached midlife. I mean, not specifically—maybe because they have health issues that they didn’t take care of sooner—but you know what I’m saying. Midlife is not a crisis. It’s a time of reevaluation, for sure. And we’re reaching a point where we’re maybe for the first time ever feeling comfortable or feeling confident enough in who we are. To say, hey, you know what, I’ve been taking all this stuff and doing all this stuff that other people told me I should be doing. But I didn’t really stop to think do I like doing this? Would I like to continue doing this? What do I want to do? So it’s really a time of reevaluation and stepping into who you really are, or who you’ve become, I guess is a better way [to say it].
Maryann: Yeah. You know, it’s funny about the crisis thing. I agree with you, I hate the term. I prefer transformation or metamorphosis or enlightenment—there’s so many other words we could use. The other thing I was gonna say about why we should meditate is we get into these like very on-the-spot, in-the-moment, stressful situations, [that are] not situations where we could say, oh, I’m gonna go paint now to feel better or meditate, right? We could be in the car stuck in traffic, we could have someone just yelling at us at the grocery store, whatever it is. Do you have any coping strategies or on-the-spot methods that we can use to recenter ourselves in the midst of that sudden chaos or sudden stress that just comes out of nowhere?
Lori: Yes, one, I’ll go back to the breathing. It always comes back to the breathing. Take some deep breaths. Somebody’s yelling at you? Just take some deep breaths, and let it go. There’s another activity too, that you could do, which is focusing on your senses. So taking your thumb and your middle and forefinger, either hand, it doesn’t matter, and just rubbing [your fingers together]. Or [you can use] just your forefinger and your thumb. Rub them together so that you are actually feeling the ridges in your fingerprints. Again, it’s something you kind of have to practice because you don’t necessarily feel it right away when you start doing it. But when you’re rubbing those fingers together, it’s refocusing your attention. It’s putting something into physicality and taking you out of your mind, away from starting to react instead of respond. Because we’re reacting with the reptilian brain part of our mind, so we go into fight or flight. Either one of those things, breathing or doing this—you don’t have to wave your hand in front of the other person—you’re just doing it and they can’t even see.
Maryann: That again, I would assume you have to really practice because the last thing I would remember to do right now is rub my fingers together if someone’s screaming at me. So I think I need a ribbon that says “rub me” [for the] first 12 or 13 times that happens.
Lori: You can do it afterwards too, to calm yourself down after you’ve left that situation if you’re still feeling all of the strong energy coming from that. Go do it then instead, if you don’t remember to do it in that moment.
Maryann: What was I watching? Oh, it was Ted Lasso. I think the first season where one of the characters—that kid that the main character of Becca was dating. He’s from Africa, great player—do you remember when that guy tries to poach him from the team, and when he says no, the guy screaming in his face and threatening him? And the kid is just standing there with a smile on his face. I’m like, I want what he’s having! I want to be that guy.
Lori: Regular meditation will take you to that place because you just don’t react to things that used to piss you off, or people are trying to get in your face. You know what? That’s their problem is not your problem. We take it on as our problem. But that was that guy’s problem.
Maryann: It goes back to the thing about the “good girl” and our conditioning. Like when someone yells at me, sometimes my first internal reaction is what did I do wrong to provoke this and this person?
Lori: Right, and that’s where it comes down to the rewiring of, “This has nothing to do with me.”
Maryann: Yeah, time to rewire, ladies—hear that?
Lori: Yeah. You may be the target of that person’s anger, but it really has nothing to do with you. It doesn’t feel good to stand there and take that anger because that energy is so strong coming at you. The more you practice meditation, the easier it becomes to just be like that character was, like a tree rooted in the ground. There’s a hurricane swirling around, but the tree is rooted in the ground. In fact, I gave this exercise to someone, one of my clients—she was feeling really stressed and everything was swirling around. She’s like, “I just can’t get focused!” I [told her to] go outside, take your shoes off, stand in the ground. If you can’t stand in the ground, close your eyes and imagine you are a tree and that all of this wind—you know, like from the Wizard of Oz, like the flying monkeys and all of this stuff—is going around you and you are just rooted like a tree. The exercise of imagining yourself, physically putting yourself in the ground, like feet on the ground. There is benefit to this. If you can’t get outside and do it in the ground, you can do it inside, but it’s even more powerful if you can get actually touch in the ground. And imagining that you are rooted like a tree. She came back in and she was like, “Oh my God, that worked.” And now she could focus on the issue at hand.
Maryann: I love that. Be a tree rooted in the ground. That’s a great, great, great metaphor. I’m gonna go do that. I’m gonna go into Golden Gate Park later. Okay, I want to just transition into the topic of transitions, because we touched on this when we chatted a couple of weeks ago. You experienced your own big transitions during midlife, including something I know a lot of people in our age bracket deal with: divorce. Tell us how difficult was that decision to end your marriage? And why did you feel like it was something that you needed in your midlife to move forward with with your story?
Lori: Hmm, [it was] the most difficult thing I have ever, ever, ever done in my entire life. And I have mourned the death of my mom and the death of my first business, the baking company. I closed the Baking Company, at the same time that my mom passed away, not because of it, it just coincided. So I was dealing with both of those things at the same time. Ending my marriage was harder because I was the one initiating that. My mom’s passing, I didn’t have control of that. That was something greater than me.
Maryann: Involuntary change versus voluntary.
Lori: And so deciding to leave my marriage after 22 years, and we have been together for almost 30, so pretty much all of my adult life at that point, was the hardest thing because it was fine. Everything was fine. We didn’t hate each other. Nobody was abusing the other person. Nothing was so terrible that I leaving was going to save my life. It was fine and I could have stayed there. And he could have too. But we both knew that this relationship wasn’t serving either one of us. And he most likely would have never initiated it, so I had to. That was the most painful, guilt-ridden time of my life.
Maryann: I’m sure. Did you use these practices that we’ve talked about, or some of them, to help in dealing with it?
Lori: Absolutely. And I don’t know how I would have gotten through it without it. So I mentioned that I had learned meditation when I was 10 and then didn’t practice it. I came back to it after my mom passed away, and that was nine years ago. Then I really leaned into it five years ago when I left the marriage, because there was no other way to maintain my sanity. I just had to do something, and that’s what it was for me.
Maryann: Yeah, and again, all the reasons you said for doubting or questioning whether you were making the right decision goes back to that conditioning again, right? I remember our generation, my grandmother saying things to people like why would you leave no one’s drinking, no one’s abusing you—their standards were pretty low, you know?
Lori: Yeah, exactly. But again, there was that deep undercurrent of suck. I need to go—it was just like, I don’t know where I need to go, but this isn’t where I need to be. I don’t know where I do need to be, but it’s not here. I guess that’s the feeling. That was just like, it’s fine, but it’s not great. And I believe I can find great. And I don’t know where it is, and I don’t know how long it’s going to take me to get there. I do believe it exists and I believe I have to go find it.
Maryann: Especially if you’ve done everything in your power to fix things, or to reconnect. Most intelligent women do that, you know. Just speaking on behalf of my friends and their similar experiences, I think when you get to the point where you’ve exhausted all the options, you have to listen to that inner voice. One person I know was really helped by I think it was an essay that Cheryl Strayed wrote. I could be misquoting this, but it was an essay about when you need to leave, whether it’s a marriage, a situation, a job—she just kept repeating the same thing: Just leave, just leave. You have to almost train yourself and keep reminding yourself why you’re doing it, making any transition.
Lori: Right, exactly. Because change is difficult, which is why people avoid it. And it’s not like I left and the next day life was unicorns and rainbows.
Maryann: It was probably harder. It was harder than the day before.
Lori: It was absolutely harder. And it was harder for a long time. And then it wasn’t.
Maryann: Well, you’re a very brave woman and you seem like you’re glowing now. I mean, people can’t see you. I can see you, but you look amazing and happy. And I could just be superficial. But I mean, from what I’m seeing, you look like you’re in a good place.
Lori: Yeah, thank you. I don’t think I could be where I am doing the things that I’m doing my program, my podcast, all of these things would not have happened if I had stayed. I mean, different things would have happened, but not at this level.
Maryann: So back to the whole point of a lot of people in midlife feeling stuck, right? So many people are searching for their purpose, their second act, whatever you want to call it, that’s going to bring that meaning to their lives. So if someone out there is looking for that, like their version of the podcast, or the book, or the next job or the next relationship, but they don’t know where to start—any tips for them and incorporating, not just all the meditation stuff, but just changing your outlook and getting on the right path?
Lori: Yes, so in my program, in the first session, we talk about values and figuring out what are your values. You can find lists online of different values. I think Brene, Brown has a PDF with a list of, I don’t know, 50 or 100, different values, but figuring out what are the most important values for you. Then looking at your calendar and seeing if those values are reflected in what you’re doing. For example, if you say that family is one of your top values, and you have no time scheduled to spend with family, you either need to change how you’re spending your time or admit that family is not one of your top values. And either way is okay. It’s just are they matching up? Alignment. That’s one of the first things and the second thing is taking action, just do whatever interests you. “I don’t know what my purpose is”—Okay, well, sitting on the couch, trying to figure it out, like mulling it over in your mind and beating yourself up for not having found it yet—just follow what interests you and go do that. Sample, you know, like from a smorgasbord. Just take a little sample of this and a little sample of that, let me taste this and see what you’re drawn to. I think that taking action [is what’s important]. I’m guilty of this too in the past, of waiting and not taking action, until I figure it out, but you actually can’t figure it out until you take action.
Maryann: Exactly. Just change one thing. I say that all the time. Like when I wanted to do the podcast, I just bought the mic. And I think when I’m confused, this is where [meditation] ties in, like I will meditate on things. I find that if I take that walk or sit and breathe and just get some alone time that it starts to become clearer what I want and what I’m going to do next.
Lori: Yes, absolutely—and asking and you don’t necessarily have to sit in a meditation to do this—but asking the universe, God, your higher power, whatever you want to call it your inner soul, asking what is it that I’m supposed to do next? Help me, help me see it. My friend Tracy tells her guides like, I’m really dense, so you have to make it super clear to me. What am I supposed to be doing next? Make it so I can’t misunderstand what it is.
Maryann: Tracy wants some real clear sign there she needs it.
Lori: Asking the question and then being open to hearing the answer because that response might not look like what you think or what you want it to look like. It might be leave your marriage, leave your job, change careers, you know, whatever. And you’re like, Well, wait, wait, wait. That’s not the response I wanted. Like, that can’t be right.
Maryann: Is there a quicker route to this? Like, should we just take some LSD or something?
Lori: I don’t know. I’ve never done that.
Maryann: Neither have I!
Lori: I’ve heard ayahuasca, but I heard it’s pretty violent.
Maryann: I did an episode on micro-dosing, which a lot of people out here in the Bay Area are doing. It’s interesting.
Lori: Yeah, I’m intrigued by that, but I haven’t done it yet.
Maryann: You gave us so much to digest and to think about. I love all of it. I love all of your tips. Tell us where we can find you online and your programs and everything.
Lori: The best place to find me online is at ZenRabbit.com, my website. The links to all my socials are there. So as a marketer, you give one to call to action, send them to one place, go to the website. At ZenRabbit.com you can find a free PDF I have called The Five Easy Ways to Start Living a Sabbatical Life. We didn’t get all into that, but that’s a really interesting document of how to do some of what we talked about, and how to live this life like it feels like you’re on a sabbatical. But you don’t have to take a month-long road trip with a 19-year-old cat like I did or a year off like some of my podcast guests have done. You can stay where you are and still learn how to live a sabbatical life so that you are not exhausted waking up exhausted every morning.
Maryann: Wow, I’m gonna send my husband to you because he’s been jealous because he has friends in academia who are taking sabbaticals. He’s like where’s my sabbatical?
Lori: You don’t have to be in academia to take a sabbatical.
Maryan: Now I know. All right, Lori, this has been such a pleasure having you on the show. Thank you for all your words of wisdom and everybody out there, start meditating.
Lori: My joy. Thanks for having me Maryann.
Outro: Thank you so much for tuning in to More Beautiful. Please visit MoreBeautifulProject.com for show notes and bonus content. And it would mean so much if you could subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you’re listening. Together let’s continue to change the conversation around aging.
