Intro: I’m ready to talk about sex and midlife, because this is the time when issues may suddenly come up: decreased libido, physical pain, lack of confidence. But no matter your age or your relationship status, you are absolutely worthy of a spicy, fulfilling sex life. That’s why I invited the midlife sex coach Dr. Sonia Wright on the show to answer all your sex related questions and help you maximize your mojo starting now.
Welcome to More Beautiful, the podcast for women rewriting the midlife playbook. I’m Maryann LoRusso, and I invite you to join me and a guest each week as we strive for a life that’s more adventurous, more fulfilling and more beautiful than ever before.
Maryann: Welcome back to the More Beautiful podcast, everyone. Joining me today is midlife sex coach Dr. Sonia Wright, who is here to talk about all the midlife sex issues we can squeeze into one episode. It’s so great to have you here, Dr. Sonia.
Sonia: Thank you so much, Maryann. It’s just wonderful to be here. I’ve been excited to talk to you all week.
Maryann: Me too. And I should point out that it’s 7:30 a.m. San Francisco time. I haven’t had my coffee yet, but I’m revved up for sex talk, so… [Laughs]
Sonia: And thank you for agreeing to meet at this time. Thank you.
Maryann: Before we start, I just want to point out that you have one of the most interesting bios I’ve ever read. You’re an MD, you’re a sexual counselor, you’re a certified life coach, and you say on your website that you also have experience working in a sex store. So tell us, was that part of your training? Were you getting on the ground experience? Because if you can navigate those sex shops, I believe you’re one step ahead of all of us.
Sonia: You know, when I decided that I wanted to be a sex coach, I wanted to make sure that I was able to give my clients everything they needed. Not just some of the information, and then I’d have to refer them somewhere else, or I’d have to say, well, kind of go online and see what you can find with that toy thing. Good luck with you. So yeah, I decided that that was something that I wanted to be comfortable talking about. And also, when I was working in a sex toy store…I’m 55 years old, right? I wanted representation in these stores for us too, you know? I didn’t want it just to be 20 something year old people in the store. I wanted to be able to be there and be like, yeah, let’s talk about menopause. Let’s talk about what you might need. And so I wanted, when people walked into the store, for them to see me and be like, oh yeah, people in their 50s have sex too. So there’s so many reasons for doing the sex toy store work. Mainly just because I wanted to help and I wanted to be there and to learn, and it’s just been a wonderful experience. The whole thing of doing sex coaching has been great.
Maryann: That is so cool. You are beyond cool, I think that’s great. And regarding the representation part, I don’t know if you’ve seen Grace and Frankie, the show with Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin. They actually invent a sex toy for women. Older women, right, but I think that’s maybe something you could do for midlife women. [Laughs] But you say your mission is to help your clients create the sexual intimacy of their dreams. And unfortunately, in our culture, there’s this perception that women are no longer sexy or sexual after a certain age, particularly after menopause. But you say that women can be sexual badasses at any age.
Sonia: At any age.
Maryann: They can feel sexual even until their 90s. Please tell us more.
Sonia: Yeah, you know, so the women I work with have ranged in age from 21, all the way into their 80s. And so it really is that the majority of people are sexual beings from the time we are born to the day we pop off. Like, we don’t stop being sexual beings at some point in time, right? And it’s interesting that men are more allowed to be sexual beings up until the time that they pass, whereas women somehow have an expiration date, like a stamp on our forehead. And that’s not the case at all. It’s definitely not the case. Our bodies do change, things that stimulate us and in our interest in sex might shift. We might have to come at it a different way. But I think everybody as they get older has to come at it a different way. And it’s just about being flexible, being creative and focusing on having fun and finding your pleasure no matter what.
Maryann: That’s beautiful. I love that. Can you tell us what your clients in midlife are coming to see you about primarily? Like, what are the main issues?
Sonia: I’d have to say the first one, and the main issue that I hear, is lack of libido. So-called. I say so-called because, you know, they come to me and they’re like, I am not interested in sex anymore. I am broken. The libido is gone. It’s not like it was when I was in my 20s. I’m not that interested in sex. And so they come to me and they’re like, there’s low libido, there’s mismatched libido with their partner if they’re in a partner situation, and they’re just feeling all kinds of wrong. And I’m like this, this is not a problem. But what is the problem is society’s concept of libido, that there’s only one type of libido. And this has to be a spontaneous type of libido where you wake up in the morning, and you’re like, good to go. And you’re like, hey, how you doing? That’s just a part of it, right? And if we think of the context of when we were experiencing that type of libido, we were probably more in our 20s into early 30s. We probably weren’t in relationships, long term relationships, or we didn’t have children. We didn’t have really stressed out jobs. We were not balancing like that sandwich generation type of thing, where you’re focusing on, what do I need to do to take care of my parents? What do I need to do to take care of my kids? Here’s my job, it’s a lot of stress. Oh, I’ve got bills. Like, there’s so much that is on our plate now.
Maryann: Right, so true. And you mention that there’s a difference between having a responsive versus a spontaneous libido. What’s a responsive libido? Can you explain?
Sonia: That’s a great question. So, society says that there’s one type of libido, the you wake up horny type of libido, and that’s considered more like the spontaneous libido. 70% of women live in the world of a responsive libido. And that’s where you kind of are coming from a place of neutrality. You could possibly get it on, or you could do the dishes. And equally, they look attractive, or maybe even the dishes look more attractive. Because you get to focus on one thing, you can actually accomplish it, you know, there’s order in your life, that type of thing, right? So when we’re coming from this place of neutrality, we often think that something’s gone wrong. Nothing has gone wrong, we just kind of need to have a better understanding of what makes us more interested in sex, and make sure that we’re getting the pleasure, the connection, that satisfaction—I call it the triad of sexual intimacy—that we’re getting something out of this sex. So often, we are doing to-do list sex, which is like, oh my goodness, my partner has been complaining, it’s been two weeks, I should just slap on some lube and get this over with so I don’t have to deal with it for a little while. Yeah, that’s not going to be the type of sex anybody really wants. Right? Not even your partner wants that type of sex with you, right? [Laughs]
Maryann: [Laughs] Right. And can one person switch back and forth between having a responsive versus spontaneous depending on circumstances? You’re in a state of relaxation, if you’re on vacation, for example.
Sonia: Exactly, yeah. So you can switch back and forth, or you may stay in one type more so than the other type. I hear from women that they’re in this place of responsive libido, and then they are in a new relationship, and suddenly they want to, you know, get it on like bunnies, like constantly. They’re like, how can this be the same body? How can this be me, right? But we’ve tapped into something, and sometimes if our stress decreases—and you’re right, you go on vacation and suddenly you’re at it again, right—you get to leave all that other stuff behind. And we don’t give ourselves permission to recognize we have a lot going on in our lives. And so if sex is not the top priority, that’s OK. But recognize that it is a benefit to us. It’s a benefit to our relationship, if we happen to be partnered. And so we get to decide if we want to engage in sex. Always, there’s consent. But we do get to decide. What are the benefits? The pleasure, the connection, and all that intimacy, just all the good things that improves and solidifies relationships. There’s a lot of good reasons for sex and sexual intimacy.
Maryann: Right. And you say there’s a difference between sexual desire and sexual response. That’s interesting.
Sonia: Yeah, I think that that’s kind of similar to the spontaneous versus the responsive type of libido. But it’s really tapping into your brain, which is like the largest sex organ, right? If that’s not on board, it’s not necessarily going to happen. And we get to look and see what it looks like for us to get in the mood to be interested in sex. Now, it’s this type of thing where some people take longer to get in the mood. Some people need more foreplay, and that’s fine. Some people need day play, like where you’re texting and interacting ahead of time, you know, before you get to that place where you’re having the sexual intimacy. So some people need that connection with their partner. They just can’t get it on, they need to feel connected, feel loved, feel heard and seen. And then for them, the next step is the sexual intimacy. So we all have different ways of getting there. It’s a matter of knowing what it is that turns us on, what gets us excited, what we need in the environment. Like, do we need not to have kids running around all the time? Do they need to be in bed? Do we need to relax with the bath and you know, just be able to release all the other stressors that’s going on with the day? Do we need some chore play where, you know, somebody helps with the dishes and puts the kids to bed or whatever else is going on, you know? So those types of things are important to know and understand. What ignites that brain, starts that engine, gets you more interested in sex?
Maryann: Yeah, you bring up a good point. I think switching those modes, for so many women, is the issue. Like, going from mom mode to sexy lady mode. [Laughs] Or even just from work to intimacy, right? We’re not like light switches, like a lot of men are.
Sonia: Yeah, but society also gives a different context. Society says that men should want sex all the time. So men have their own stuff to contend with in terms of sex and what concepts are out there.
Maryann: So true. That’s a really good point.
Sonia: We both have these messages that we get to release, and decide what it is that we want in terms of sex and sexual intimacy.
Maryann: Right. Do some medications and medical conditions also dampen desire for women?
Sonia: Yeah, definitely. If you’re depressed, that could definitely dampen desire. If you think about it, the way our bodies are made, the evolution of the human body has not changed for millions of years. So if we go back to cave person days, and we look and see what it is that would make us less interested in having sex at that same time, if there’s a saber toothed tiger outside the cage—or, excuse me, outside of the cave—we’re not going to want to have sex. We’re going to be like, we’d better run to the hills or climb up a tree or something like that. Today, the saber toothed tiger is like a really stressful day at work. Right? Or if we’re really depressed, that might be something. Or if we have a medical condition, if we’ve got treatment for cancer and stuff. There’s many reasons why our body might be like, sex is not the top priority right now. And that’s OK. But we also get to be intentional about it, and to make sure, even if we’re not specifically talking about penetrative sex, to make sure that there’s touch there, and that there’s connection there. Obviously, if it’s a medical condition that you’re dealing with, get the help in the treatment that you need for the medical condition, that’s the top priority. But also, at the same time, try to integrate the intimacy. And when I say intimacy, that this is the important part. Sexual intimacy is always based on a foundation of intimacy, which is based on a foundation of communication. So if you’re not having sexual intimacy at a specific time because medical conditions are going on and things like that, see if the communication can stay open and the intimacy can stay open, because then it’s easier to add back on the sexual intimacy later. So that means make sure the touch is there, if it can still be there. Make sure the discussion is there. Right now I’m in a lot of pain, or my hip is broken, or whatever, so I can’t engage in this type of sexual intimacy, but I can engage in this type. And then this is where the toys come in, right? Whether we’re partnered or not, we get a lot of joy and benefits from masturbation. It improves our immune system, it just gives us a hit of dopamine, and then also oxytocin release. Self pleasure is also an important part of our health as well. So there’s so many ways that we can approach sex and sexual intimacy when we’re talking about health as well.
Maryann: And what kind of role do hormones play in sexual desire? Because you do hear a lot of women complain that their libido goes downhill after the hormones start doing that. But then you also hear stories of women who say their sex lives get better after menopause. So does it just depend? Like, what is this dependent on?
Sonia: It does just depend on the woman and how her body reacts to menopause, or whatever is happening with our hormones. And I always defer to the GYN people for that. I’m like, you know, thank goodness we have the gynecologist and they can look more into that. But also, there’s the other side, which is there’s our hormones, but there’s also our thoughts that are going on. And if we’re transitioning, like say we’re in perimenopause, menopause age, and we’re thinking thoughts like, oh, I’m getting older, I’m not sexy as I get older. Or, my body has changed, it doesn’t look like I did when I was 20. Like, these types of thoughts are going to be impacting us. Or maybe you’re having a thought, like, oh, I’m postmenopausal, the kids are out of the house, I’m not gonna get pregnant anymore. This is my time to see and do everything that I want to do in life. Then you might be like, hey, let’s try this. Right? So there are hormones, and that definitely impacts things. And then there’s also our attitude and our thoughts as our body and our lives and our age is changing as well.
Maryann: So if a woman does come to you with that complaint of low libido, what’s your approach?
Sonia: Yeah, so I always start with the thoughts, right? Because I’m a life coach. So I can’t help myself, I need to know what the thoughts are. So I always make sure that they’re checking in with their gynecologist and they’re getting that side of things sorted out. I’ll just check and see if they’re checking on their hormones or if they’re postmenopausal, if they’re on at least localized estrogen replacement to keep the vulva and the vagina healthy, those types of things. But then I’m also asking them, you know, what are your thoughts? OK, you have low libido. What is it that you’re thinking in terms of not necessarily being interested in sex at this point in time? And then I’ll say, ok, what are your thoughts around sexual intimacy with yourself or with your partner? What is the thought that comes up? And if they’re saying, please, God, no, I don’t want to do that. [Laughs] Or, I’ll put that on the list right after taking out trash, or those types of thoughts,, then I’m like, we’ve got some stuff to deal with here.
Maryann: Right, you’ve got your work cut out?
Sonia: Yeah. And a lot of it is getting back in touch with their own body and what it’s like for them to have pleasure, to give themselves permission for pleasure, and to understand as our bodies change, things that stimulate us might need to change. Like, if we have less estrogen in our system, then the stimulation might have to increase. Our nerves change with the decrease in estrogen in the vulva region. And so it may be that you need a stronger vibrator, you need more pressure a certain way. There’s things that need to be checked out. So often, it’s about going back and investigating your body, how your body responds to touch. And not necessarily always focusing on coming to an orgasm, as much as it is to understand and to sense how your body reacts to different stimuli. And like anything, you can train your body, right? If you have not been having sex and if you’ve been kind of checked out, and you’re having what I call the to-do list sex where you’re just waiting it out, or maybe you’re thinking about your summer vacation while you’re having sex or something like that. And you’re like, two more minutes, and this will be over. [Laughs] Right? So if you’re thinking about that, then you know why. The odds are there’s not much happening for you in this situation, right? You’re not going to be that interested in it. Maybe you’ve tried to talk to your partner about how you need to be stimulated. Or maybe you haven’t really enjoyed sex for a long time, but you don’t want to hurt somebody’s feelings, right? But if you have a checked out partner in the middle of sex, you’re kind of probably hurting their feelings. So it’s not like you’re avoiding something. So then it becomes having discussions with your partner. And yeah, there might be some discomfort in having these discussions. But usually I’ll talk to women and I’ll be like, you have 40 or 50 more years of sexual intimacy. Is this what you want it to look like, or do you want something different? Are you willing to do the work?
Maryann: Right. And if you mentioned orgasms. We’re such an orgasm focused culture, right? Like, it’s all about orgasms. But it’s not.
Sonia: It’s not all about orgasms, right? Orgasms are great. And yes, if you like them, if you want to have an orgasm, go for it. I know that there’s a lot of people that have performance anxiety around orgasms, and specifically, that they’re taking too long to have an orgasm. There’s no specific length of time, right? Or they’re like, I’m not doing it the right way. Or there’s people that don’t like to have other people perceive them as out of control during an orgasm. So there’s a lot of thoughts that are in our mind around orgasm. And if you’re not a person that can have orgasms, or you haven’t had them yet, then there’s a lot of additional anxiety associated with that. So that’s why I don’t put the focus on the orgasm as much as that triad of sexual intimacy. Are you having some satisfaction with this? Are you having some connection? Are you having pleasure? And then of course, when we’re talking about orgasms, we do have to make sure that people understand that specifically, like…When we’re talking about the female anatomy and the male anatomy, or people with penises—like, we say men have penises and women have vaginas—our pleasure center is not our vagina. Sometimes it is a lot of fun, but our pleasure center and that thing that’s analogous to the penis is the clitoris.
Maryann: Do women our age not know that?
Sonia: No, there’s a lot of women that don’t know that. And then there’s these foolish beliefs that are out there in society and have been for a long time that a better orgasm is one that’s associated with penetrative sex. Like, what kind of bullshit is that? You know? [Laughs]
Maryann: Right. It doesn’t align. [Laughs]
Sonia: It doesn’t. An orgasm is an orgasm, pleasure is pleasure. However you get it is fine as long as you’re not harming yourself or others, right? So it’s like the judgment around “one type of orgasm is better than another” or “it has to be done within a short period of time” and all these things, this is what keeps us from having the pleasure that we deserve.
Maryann: Right. And before we get into other issues that women our age have, a lot of people I’m sure want to know, what does a sex coach actually do? How do you work with people? Because I think some people are envisioning you’re working with people when they’re having sex, or, like…How does it work if someone wants to hire you?
Sonia: Yeah, that’s a great question, because I do get people that are like, well, what? Do you stand next to the bed with like, a whistle? You’re like, alrighty, 3, 2, 1 go!
Maryann: [Laughs] With scorecards. You’re holding up scorecards.
Sonia: [Laughs] Right, right, right. That was kind of a six, let’s do that over. No, so basically, a sex coach is somebody that is there along the journey with you. It’s a lot of talking. I do it all virtually over the internet, talking and interacting with people and looking at what it is that they’re concerned about. Usually there’s some sort of goal that they want to get to, and I help them discover what is blocking them from this goal, what are their thoughts that might be an issue, how do they want to address this issue. Then we also incorporate, like, since I have medical knowledge, I have some understanding of what’s going on. So if there’s medical conditions, then we make sure that they’re being referred to the different providers that can help them with that. A lot of women might need pelvic floor physical therapy, so they’ll go to their gynecologist and then get a referral from there. But sometimes I’m the first person that they mention that they’re having pain with sex, and they think that, oh, I’ve had pain with sex for 10 years, that breaks my heart.
Maryann: Oh, wow. Yeah.
Sonia: Because, you know, we could do something about that. So go to the gynecologist. So I kind of incorporate all the information that they’re giving me, and I help them with their thought process, getting to their goals. If there’s any additional providers that need to get involved, then I suggest that they check in with people. And I do it also on an individual basis, one on one. And then I also lead groups. And you would think that, oh my goodness, it would be so hard to talk about sex in a group setting. But actually, my groups are just so fantastic. The women are so committed to being there. And in addition to getting the coaching that you need, you also get the support from other women. And so you realize that you’re not the only one dealing with this. And you’re learning from the coaching that these other women are getting in the situation too, so it becomes a group of like really close knit people. And we do that where we have fun names like afternoon delight and stuff like that.
Maryann: Yeah, I noticed one on your website. Spicy girl, right?
Sonia: Spicy girl, right, right. So we get the work done. And so I do private, and I also do group, and it’s just really about connecting and helping people. I mean, people have come to me and said that I’ve saved their marriage. It’s not me that’s done the saving—they’re the ones that have done the work—but if I can help in any way and be there to be a guide and to bounce ideas off us and process, that’s what a coach does. Now, if it’s like long term therapy that they need, then they need to go to a therapist. If it’s like they’re dealing with sexual trauma, and this is the first time they’ve dealt with this, then yes, they need to be at a therapist. If they’re dealing with long term stuff associated with their childhood and things like that, then a therapist. A sex coach is usually for a specific length of time, a specific goal that they want to get to, and we work on that.
Maryann: Great. I love the fact that the women are talking in groups and they’re opening up to one another, especially about the pain aspect, because that’s something I think that when it happens to you, it’s very confusing. Like, why am I getting this pain? And it can be scary, right? What are some of the issues that women bring up in regards to pain and sex?
Sonia: Yeah, good question. Like 75% of women at some point in their life will experience pain. And it could be pain from an infection. It could be pain secondary to menopause, where you lose some lubrication. It doesn’t have to be menopause. Like, if you’ve had a child, you might lose lubrication, or if you’re on birth control pills and things like that. Or you’re just naturally a person that doesn’t have a lot of lubricant. So that’s another issue. There could also be something called vaginismus or pelvic floor dysfunction issues going on, and that’s like a spasming of the pelvic floor muscles such that they’re so tight that it won’t let anything penetrate, and it’s very painful. So that could be another reason. There’s so many different reasons that can cause this pain. And a lot of it resolves, and sometimes it doesn’t resolve, and so then it’s a matter of figuring out. Nobody should be in pain with sex. You should not be like, I’m just going to bear this and get it over as fast as possible. No. There’s providers out there that are trained specifically in sexual medicine that can help you with that. And then I would come in and help with, like, now that the pain has been relieved, there’s probably something in your mind that’s like, I can’t have sex because it’s going to be painful, even though physically it’s not. It’s like, your mind and your body have worked together to protect you, and so now we kind of unravel the thoughts that are there. But it’s important to get the treatment for the sexual pain and to make sure that that’s being resolved. But while that’s being resolved, then I also work with them in terms of, OK, let’s get creative with sexual intimacy. Let’s figure this out so that you can still have the sex. So often, if they have a partner and they’re dealing with sexual pain, they’ve shut everything down. Like, there’s no connection. And because of that, if their partner touches them, they’re so afraid that it’s going to lead to sex that they don’t even allow hand holding or something. And so getting back to the intimacy. And the partners can be traumatized too, because they’re like, oh my goodness, I don’t want to cause pain. So getting back to this place of trust, of intimacy, of touch, and figuring out. And that’s where the toys come in, too. There’s so many fun toys for men, there’s like those masturbation sleeves and things like that that are out there. So if they are penis owner, they can still have the penetration. But the most important thing, the pleasure, the connection, that can still be there. So toys are really helpful in a lot of ways to make sure that the connection can still be maintained, while everything else is being sorted out.
Maryann: Well, our podcast listeners cannot see the device you just held up.
Sonia: This one is a tenga flip. So it allows penetration into this, and there’s little nodules in there which gives different textured feelings and stimulation. And then you can press down on it and it causes more of a grip, a section grip. So that’s the tenga flip.
Maryann: Regarding the hormonal related pain, I feel like a lot of menopausal women are experiencing that, and they feel that that’s so intricately connected to their sexuality that maybe their sexuality is dwindling, or maybe this is why they’re not turned on. And is there a way to kind of work with women through all this so that they can kind of come out the other side and find a new sexuality after menopause that doesn’t hurt and that maybe looks different than the sex they were used to before?
Sonia: Yeah, there’s so many ways to come at it. So one thing that we’re not talking enough about is this contract concept of GSM, genitourinary syndrome of menopause. And it has a number of different parts to it, like lack of lubrication, there could be atrophy of the vagina, of the vulva region, there may be an increase in the urinary tract infections. So there’s different aspects of this. And women are not alerted to this. When you’re in perimenopause and you’re going through menopause, you’re not told that, hey, when you’re losing your androgens and estrogens, there’s going to be some ramifications about this. And we may have to add the localized estrogen, and we may have to come at it a different way. If you’re in pain, we definitely need to work with sexual medicine people, and maybe the PT people to do dilators. If it’s been such that you’ve been without estrogen for an extended period of time, we put you back on localized estrogen. And then also, maybe you need pelvic floor physical therapy and things like that. There are a lot of things that can happen so that you can get back to this place of pleasure. But while that’s all being sorted out, while we’re dealing with the pain, it gets back to, let’s work on stimulation, and let’s work on what makes your pleasure and what are your thoughts about it, because a lot has probably happened if they’re experiencing pain and they shut it all down. So let’s bring this back and recognize, like…I’ve worked with women that have not had sex in 5, 10 years, and we sort it out, and we get back to this place where they are having intimacy and they are enjoying themselves. But we do need to look at our bodies, understand what our vulva looks like. We’re not just a vagina walking around. We have a clitoris, we have a whole vulva region, and there’s a lot of pleasure in that area. And so we figure out how to enhance and evoke the pleasure.
Maryann: Yeah. I mean, speaking of a woman who hasn’t been sexually active for a while, is there a way to turn the lights back on? Like, how do you approach that kind of situation?
Sonia: Yeah, you know, I start with wherever they’re at. Like, a thought I start with is, what is it that might have stopped you from having sex? Was it pain? Was it thoughts about sex? Was it postmenopausal changes in anatomy, things like that? So figuring out what stopped it, and then slowly bringing it back from there, focusing on, you are actually a sexual being, how exactly would you like to express yourself as a sexual being? And a lot of times, we put the focus on, oh, I’m going to have sex with a partner, so I have to have a partner. If I don’t have a partner, then I’m not sexual. But you’re an innately sexual being, the majority of people, and so you get to be sexual whether or not you have a partner. And so working on finding that identity, that part of you that is sexual, and whatever it is that you may need to learn. Because depending on your age—and even to this day, we don’t get a lot of really good sexual education—sometimes it’s about, let’s go back and talk about sex. Usually when we learn about sex, it’s associated with a lot of fear, right? It’s like, you might get an STI, you might get pregnant, your reputation might be ruined. Nobody talks about pleasure, nobody’s talking about the fun associated with it. So you might in your mind already have it associated with things that are scary, or that it’s not something good girls do, that type of thing. It’s really interesting. Our thoughts that we have in our mind may be thoughts around sex that we acquired when we were 10, 13, you know? So it’s kind of bringing your thoughts up to date to be like, you’re a grown woman, you get to engage in sexual intimacy, you get to be a sensual badass at any age. What does that look like for you? What does pleasure look like for you? What are your thoughts around exploring your body and finding out what you enjoy? I mentioned a lot of people have, like, a learner’s permit when it comes to their body and sexual intimacy. And they actually are like sitting in the passenger seat, and they have their partner that’s the person driving the machine, driving the car. Like, it’s time to get your driver’s license. It’s time to get in the seat and figure out how your body works and what you like sexually. So this becomes something that I focus on and work with them.
Maryann: Great analogy. And, you know, you bring up an interesting point about the fears that were instilled in us when we were learning sex ed, back in the day. Gen X, I feel like in particular, we grew up with a ton of fear in the time of AIDS. I remember in my eighth or ninth grade, I was probably in high school actually, in our sex ed class, we were shown a video about AIDS, and it was very scary. And there was really a lack of information surrounding all of that. So I feel like Gen X really got the brunt of that fear instilled in them.
Sonia: I think so. I mean, I am definitely a Gen X, and I think about the 70s when I was like, 10, 11, 12 years old. And they used to have like, teen and preteen disco things, right? And you’d go there, and it was just like a fun time. Then we hit the 80s, and it just completely shifted. It wasn’t this freedom and exploration and love and things like that.
Maryann: The opposite.
Sonia: Everything got shut down. It was like, you could get something, you could die from this. You know, sex is bad, why do you…? So things definitely shifted. And a lot of the things that we learned were to keep us safe, but we get to learn something different. We are safe, we can continue to use, like…And this is something for anybody that’s getting back into the dating thing, because there’s a lot of Gen Xers that are getting back into the dating world and going online and things like that. And if they’re postmenopausal, they’re like, oh, it’s good to go. No, it’s not good to go. Make sure you’re still using protection. [Laughs] There’s stuff out there, right?
Maryann: Right. I read a statistic somewhere about the fact that nursing homes now have STIs.
Sonia: Yeah, they do. Which is good on the one hand, because people are getting on, but on the other hand, we need to be able to protect ourselves to make sure that we stay healthy, so that we can continue to have great sexual intimacy all the way through. So that’s just a consideration. But yeah, to put the focus on your pleasure, and to put the focus on, there’s no such thing as a good girl or a bad girl or a good person or a bad person, or, sex is not divided along gender lines, everybody gets to express themselves sexually. I think that these are important messages that we need to learn and understand.
Maryann: And you know, I wrote about this last week. I feel like the millennials and Gen Z, they’re lucky. I’m jealous of them, because they’re growing up in this atmosphere of just more acceptance and more variety and more knowledge. And I was writing that all these mainstream retailers now have sexual wellness departments, sections on their website where you can buy a vibrator, no problem. You get your jeans, your socks and your vibrator all in one place. [Laughs]
Sonia: But that’s available to us too, right?
Maryann: Right, exactly.
Sonia: If you can buy it, it’s available to us, right?
Maryann: But they didn’t have to wait this long to figure it out.
Sonia: Yes. [Laughs] If you think about it, we’re Gen X, and we’re in our 50s, 60s, 40s, late 40s. We still have 30, 40 more years of sexual intimacy ahead of us, like, it’s not too late for us. Like, baby boomers, it’s not too late for that. We are in the middle of it all, and we get to have fun with it.
Maryann: I love that. What about our aging bodies? I know that’s a psychological barrier that many women have. You know, they see themselves changing. We look at ourselves like, oh my God, these breasts are not in the same place they were 20 years ago. How do you help work with clients to overcome that aspect of it?
Sonia: Yeah, you know, body image is a big part of sexuality. And it’s the one of the things that can really shut people down, if they don’t believe that they’re sexy or beautiful, or entitled to pleasure. Like, my thing is, hey, if you got a clitoris, if you have a penis, if you have whatever structure that allows you to have pleasure, then you’re entitled to pleasure. [Laughs] Like, everybody’s entitled to pleasure, right? It’s not about how thin you are. Like, our society wants us to think that sexy people are like, 5’10” and size two or smaller, and if you don’t look like this, then you’re not entitled to be sexy. But the average woman in America is like, 5’4” and a size 14. Like, you know, there’s definitely this dichotomy in terms of what the media is presenting to us and who we are showing up in this world, right? And so we need to give ourselves permission to enjoy sex, to enjoy pleasure, to be a sexual being no matter what our size is, because we’re beautiful. Our bodies are amazing, right? Our bodies are just amazing, and we’re allowed to have pleasure with our bodies, and we get to decide. There’s not just one way to be and to look in order to be sexual. While we’re sitting there being upset with some sort of body part that we don’t like, we’re missing out on intimacy. When you’re gonna get to the end of your days, are you going to be like, oh, well, thank God I didn’t have sex, because, you know, I was worried about the size of my tummy. Or are you going to be like, I really missed out on some good shit, you know?
Maryann: Exactly.
Sonia: You get to give yourself the permission you need. So the question becomes, what do you need to think in order to give yourself permission to be a sexual being, to enter and tap into that pleasure that you deserve to have?
Maryann: And I think the body thing is changing, though. I feel like we’re seeing more diverse bodies everywhere now, which is a beautiful thing. If anything, you want more booty right now. [Laughs]
Sonia: If anything, you do want more booy, which is good. But then once again, like, yes, the trend is in our favor in that way, but maybe it won’t be in the future. So I don’t necessarily want people to be dependent upon external validation.
Maryann: Yeah, I know, I’m just joking. [Laughs]
Sonia: Yeah, I know, I’m right there with you. But ultimately, the internal validation is basically no matter what we look like, it doesn’t matter. Like, I’ve got gray hair, and I still get to have sex. [Laughs]
Maryann: Right. I love your gray hair. But you know, also, our partners are not sitting there, as they’re enjoying sex, thinking, oh, I wish her belly were a little flatter. They don’t care. They’re just having fun.
Sonia: They don’t care. They’re like, this is some good shit. And I’m having some of it. Right? [Laughs]
Maryann: [Laughs]
Sonia: Honestly, it is really an honor to share your body with anyone. So if they are not recognizing the incredible honor that they are receiving…I could say it nicely. But then choose no for that person, you know, because it really is an honor to share your body with whomever, to share it with yourself, to share it with others, and it should be appreciated in that light.
Maryann: I love that. Are there any other issues that women in midlife come to you with? Anything we did not cover?
Sonia: No, I think that’s most of it. Mismastched libido is an issue as well. And we talked about low libido, and then I also see that in the context of they come with the low libido, and their partner has the higher libido. Usually, that’s what it is. Sometimes it’s the other way, where they have the higher libido and their partner has the lower libido. But when they come to me, they come to me and they’re like, OK, I have a low libido. My partner’s complaining, I just want to know how to do it more often. And I’m like, yeah, I’m not going to be just talking about frequency. That’s not what this is about. This is about what do you get out of it and what do you need? And so when it’s mismatched libido, I often talk about, like, there’s your libido, there’s your partner’s libido—or partners’, if you have more than one partner—and then there’s the relationship libido that’s kind of like a third libido. And you get to figure it out together as to what works best for you. So low libido, mismatched libido, body image, those are a lot of the things that are postmenopausal. Like, your body changing and having to deal with that as well. being exhausted, being tired, being stressed out. Those are the main things.
Maryann: Yeah, and I think we have to stop comparing ourselves to other people. I was at a dinner party when someone my age commented that she and her husband had sex like five times a day, and everyone else just looked at them, like, what’s going on here? What’s wrong with me? You know, everyone’s different, and it’s up to the couple to negotiate their own sex lives, right?
Sonia: And it’s always the ones that are having sex quite frequently that want everybody to know about it.
Maryann: [Laughs] Yeah.
Sonia: It’s like, do your thing and enjoy yourself, I really don’t need to know about it. But it makes it seem like everybody else has a problem with them, and that’s not the case at all. It’s not the case at all. And so if it’s the case that you and your partner are having sex once a month, or once a year, and it doesn’t bother you, then there is no problem. I am not here to make it a problem. Nobody else should be here to make it a problem. If you both are happy and satisfied, and that works for you, then don’t make it a problem. If you feel like it’s a problem and an issue, then yes, I’m here to help you, and other people are here to help you with that. But don’t go by somebody else’s standards. You get to decide what’s right for you.
Maryann: So, Dr. Sonia, if you could give our viewers one little piece of homework to do, what would it be? What would you tell them to do to improve their sex lives, no matter where they’re at right now?
Sonia: I would tell them to self pleasure. Like, I would honestly tell them to learn more about their body, to self pleasure. Like, to take themselves on a date night, and make sure that there’s time for them and that they have self care. I think that these are important things. I feel like the foundation of connecting with other people is to connect with yourself first. Understand that you are worthy of pleasure. You deserve pleasure. As your body changes and grows, the stimulation might change. And that’s OK. Explore.
Maryann: What about play? Isn’t play so intricately tied to your ability to receive pleasure?
Sonia: Yeah, it is. So play is something that’s important as well, definitely. And you can incorporate play into self pleasure, into your connection with your partner, your connection with yourself. Yeah, we’re talking about joy and pleasure in whatever form. When I say pleasure, a lot of people just interpret it as sexual pleasure. But just allow yourself to have this general pleasure, like, what makes you happy in terms of walking in nature, you know, taking a bath, relaxing. Incorporate the play, get to know your body, get engaged in self care and self pleasure, and then go from there to connect with others.
Maryann: OK, you hear that, everybody? You’ve got an assignment this weekend. Go out, walk in nature, take a bubble bath, whatever it takes. Get that vibrator, as Dr. Sonia says. [Laughs] Oh my gosh, thank you. This has been so much fun. Can you tell everybody where they can find you online?
Sonia: Yeah, the easiest place to find me is at Soniawrightmd.com. And you can see my individual coaching and also my group coaching, access to both of those, and you can find out more about me and the services that I provide. And I’m also a physician life coach as well. So I do sex coaching, but I’ve been a life coach for six years, and a sex coach for three.
Maryann: Thank you so much for joining us today. Really appreciate it.
Sonia: Thank you so much for having me. I so appreciate this, thanks.
