The following has been edited for clarity.
Intro: Are you a powerhouse, over-40 single looking for love? Maybe you’ve been looking in all the wrong places. Maybe you’re ready to give up. Or maybe you’re a hopeful romantic who can’t wait to find the one. Whatever your situation, this episode is for you. Certified relationship coach Giovanna Capozza is here to tell you how you can heal from past relationships, generate more self compassion, break dating patterns that are not working, and remove other obstacles that prevent you from finding the love you deserve to have. Welcome to More Beautiful, the podcast for women rewriting the midlife playbook. I’m Maryann LoRusso, and I invite you to join me and a guest each week as we strive for a life that’s more adventurous, more fulfilling and more beautiful than ever before.
Maryann: Welcome back to the More Beautiful podcast. My guest today is the lovely Giovanna Capozza, who is a coach, a writer, a functional medicine practitioner and the founder of Love Well Coaching, which helps women heal their unhealthy relationship patterns, strengthen their self love and remove obstacles that prevent them from finding the love they deserve. Giovanna is also the author of the new book “Love Well: Confessions of a Lovesick Woman,” which was just released on Valentine’s Day. So, Giovanna, welcome.
Giovanna: Thank you so much for having me. I’m looking forward to this.
Maryann: Me too, I was looking forward all week. Your memoir is about your journey—looking for love in all the wrong places, as you say—and finally learning how to love yourself unconditionally. Can you tell us a little bit about why you wrote the book and what you’re hoping readers will get out of it?
Giovanna: Oh, that’s such a good question. I think a lot of books start off…I originally wanted to write it just for myself. I was like, nobody needs to read this, I just need to chronicle this journey. Like, I’m just gonna write this for myself. And then as my career as a coach progressed, and as I progressed, I started really realizing, you know what, I think there’s actually something in here that might touch other people. And as I started to speak to other women and coach people, I would share little bits about it. And the feedback was always like, wow, that’s totally me, or that resonates with me. And so the reason that it became not just a “me” project, and it became a “we” project, is because I really started to see that there’s a lot of women, right, I say in the book, there’s a lot of women walking around masquerading as little girls, or sort of little girls masquerading as women. And it’s that inner child in all of us that wants to be loved, wants to be chosen. And I think for so many women, we don’t realize that this is kind of operating, and that that little girl’s running our love life. And so for me, I wanted to be able to speak to her and speak to that woman, and help her heal all these places that made me feel unlovable. Because ultimately, the journey that I found for myself was I had to get to those pieces for myself, right? And I got to that space as well where that deep craving I had for love and connection…I actually didn’t realize that that was a really deep craving for love and connection I had to my own soul, right? To spirit, to source, to God, whatever word you want to use. So yeah, so I wanted to bring that to the reader and hope, right? Like, even if it changes one person’s life, my job is done.
Maryann: That’s so great. I wanted to ask you…My single friends over 40, even the happiest and the most successful ones, say that at times, they still feel pressure to find a mate, whether it’s pressure from family and friends or pressure they put on themselves. I want to know why, in 2022, this is still the case. I mean, did anybody question George Clooney when he decided to stay single until his 50s?
Giovanna: No.
Maryann: Right, no. Why not?
Giovanna: Yeah. Well, you know, I think you said the right word in there. It’s a societal pressure, right? It’s how we are really raised in society and in families. And there’s so many answers to that question. Some of it is cultural, right? Like sometimes, even if you find the person, then the next question is, when are you gonna have babies? There’s always this other thing that somehow we are expected to do, some other milestone. Even for some of the women I coach that already do have children, then the pressure is, well, when is your kid going to have babies for you? And it’s like, there seems to always be this other thing.
Maryann: [Laughs] Never ending.
Giovanna: [Laughs] It’s never ending. So, I think a huge part of that is societal, and then a second part of that is cultural. But I think we ourselves as women, though, put that pressure on ourselves. We are creatures of connection, right? If I send my partner off to a cottage on an island with nothing, just him and the dog and like a pack of hot dogs, he will be fine for, like, probably months and months, right? Like, we are creatures of community and connection. And I think there’s part of that desire to have that, to share, to nurture, that I think we also pressure ourselves. But I mean, OK, let’s blame the patriarchy. Let’s bring in the P word for a second. Like, you know, part of that is that, right? Those questions that we get. I think someone posted the other day on Instagram—it was actually quite interesting—like, why are we still questioning and asking Jennifer Aniston why she’s not married with children?
Maryann: Oh, yes, that poor girl.
Giovanna: Why? Like, let it go. She’s happy, her life is full. She doesn’t need to have that. It’s part society, part cultural, part our own desire. And then I think another piece of it is that patriarchal expectation that we just put on each other.
Maryann: Right. And right before we got on this call, I was just reading a study that revealed, to me at least, something very surprising. It said that 71% of single women over 40 say that they are not looking for any kind of relationship, neither a committed relationship nor a casual one. And I found that really interesting. What do you think of that?
Giovanna: You know, I think that’s great, actually. I don’t think it’s a requirement to live a happy life. I mean, I don’t know what that 71% group comprises of—like, I mean, it could be part women that are just so darn happy with their life that they’re full, and that’s just not a desire for them anymore. It could be that some of those people are just where I was.Like, I just reached a point of like, I’m done, I give up. I messed this up too many times, I’ve crashed and burned too many times. Like, I’m done crying, I’m done being upset about this, I’m just done with it. So I don’t know what that 71% comprises of in terms of why their reasons are that they aren’t looking, but I’m not really shocked by that. Because I think women more and more are coming into a sense of agency and empowerment, and they’re loving their lives. I always say to my clients, the man is not the cake. The man is the icing on the cake. The partner is the icing on the cake. You and your life, you’re the cake. That’s what it is, right? And I think so many women have just reached that point where they’re not willing to compromise. Like, they have this great life, and they feel great, and things are amazing. And I’m not going to just settle, right, for that person just to have a person. So I think what’s happening is a lot of people—and this is certainly what happened with me—is I had to re-examine why I wanted a relationship. Like, what was the point of me searching for this, you know, unicorn love of my life? And as I aged, that reason changed, it became different.
Maryann: Right. Great, that’s so true. And most of your clients are what you call powerhouses in most areas of their lives, women who have their shit together, as you say. What kinds of love related issues do high achieving women typically come to you with?
Giovanna: Well, that’s such a good question. You know, it brings me back to that comment I made about the little girl, right? Because it doesn’t matter how successful you are, and how much you’re kicking ass in the boardroom. For a lot of those women that come to see me who are, like you said, kicking ass in other areas of their life and everything’s going great, there still is this innate…I wouldn’t even say it’s innate, it’s almost like this survival kind of instinct that we all have this, this desire to be loved and to be acknowledged and seen. And for many of them, they’re still struggling with that. Even though they feel self confident in their career, there’s still areas of self worth that they’re working on, right? Many of them are like, I am so not going to lose myself in another relationship. Like, I’ve done that, I’ve gone into a relationship where it was the wrong place to lose myself and I totally lost my entire bearings, like all my compass was gone. A lot of them are dealing with sometimes childhood stuff that’s come up with them, there’s sometimes like parental ways of relating that they haven’t healed. There’s so many different reasons why they come in, but ultimately, that base kind of wound, which in my opinion is humanity’s wound, this not enoughness or “I’m not lovable,” that’s still sometimes lurking around, right? And I’ve seen it. I’ve had women from all walks of life come to work with me in different careers, and it doesn’t matter how much money they’re making or how successful they are. It’s still that piece.
Maryann: Yeah, and we’re gonna get into more of that later in this episode. But first, I just want to ask you, if a woman does make the decision—if she’s part of that, you know, 30%—to find someone to have a relationship with, where is she looking nowadays? I mean, I’ve been married for 26 years, so I am a bit out of touch. Is she being set up by friends? Is she online dating? Where are your ladies looking for love?
Giovanna: I say take it where you can get it, right? So if your friends are going to set you up, great. If you’re going to run into someone at the grocery store, fantastic, right? Pre-pandemic, I was telling my clients to join meetup groups and places where you share…You know, if photography is one of your hobbies, go to a photography group, or do things like this, put yourself out there. But online dating is the hotspot. Like, I met my guy on Bumble. And, you know, this is the hotspot where people are meeting. There’s certain tools that you need for that, I think, and some really good discerning muscles, right? [Laughs] But this is where it’s happening. The most important thing is to get out there. Like, if you are in that 30% or 29%, or whatever it is, that you want this, to get out there. Now, a lot of women that come to work with me, they kind of know that someday maybe they’ll want it, but they’re like, not right now, I just need to work out all this other stuff first, and I’m not ready yet. Sometimes I take my clients through dating for homework—or dating as homework, which I can explain in a minute—but they’re like, no, no, I don’t want to do any of that. I don’t want to put myself out there. I know I have all this stuff. I need to deal with this stuff first, and then I’ll put myself out there. It’s like, OK, but the most important thing is that if you want it, you get out there, because Purolator is not going to drop him off at your door, right? Like, you need to put yourself out there. And sometimes that’s actually the very problem. We have shrunk ourselves in our world, maybe in our life. I mean, especially now with the world circumstances as they were. Getting out there, and just that act of putting yourself literally out there, is so brave, it requires so much courage, that sometimes it’s just like, I don’t want to do that, it’s scary. So, take it where you can find it. [Laughs]
Maryann: [Laughs] Right. Great advice. And you say it’s not about finding “the one,” right? It’s about receiving love. Could you tell us more about that?
Giovanna: Yeah. For those of you that are listening that are going to pick up the book, you’re going to know that I’ve been a hopeless romantic since, I think, I popped out of the womb. It was always like, the one, the one. And, you know, “the one” is a beautiful fantasy connotation that there’s this one person, but the connotation that comes with that is that this one person is going to be the one answer. And a lot of times what comes with the concept of the one is this rescuer. Like, this one person is going to make my life so much better, and it’s going to rescue me from all these things. And that was definitely me, right? Like, that was what I was looking for. I mean, obviously, I’ve evolved and changed and learned a lot of things. There could be multiple ones in your life, right? And it sounds cliche, but the most important thing is that you actually become your own “one,” really, because whenever we leave it in someone else’s hands to make us happy, heal us, fulfill our every need, keep us company, take out the trash, like all the things, it’s too much to put on any one person. Right? And so the concept of you becoming “the one” and really falling in love with your life and yourself—this is why, you know, for so many of these women that you mentioned earlier who are happy and they’re living their life, that’s fantastic. You’re like 10 steps ahead of where I was in my early 30s. So hopelessly, romantically, running around looking for, is it him? Is it him? Right? So it’s learning to really love your life, but also coming to peace with things like yearning, and longing, and even loneliness. We almost want to run away from these things. Like, they’re bad things. But in order for us to make peace with ourselves and actually become “the one” for us, we need to make peace with those things. We need to almost embrace those things. And we need to find the beauty in some of that and to be able to redirect that. So I don’t know if that answers your question exactly, but… [Laughs]
Maryann: It does. And it’s interesting you bring up the whole, you know, hopeless romantic in yourself, because you and I discussed this the other day in our conversation: as Gen X, we’re notorious for being suckers for romance. We grew up with rom coms galore, right?
Giovanna: Totally. [Laughs] Guilty.
Maryann: Yeah, more than the younger generations, many of us are still fixated on that.
Giovanna: Yeah, I agree with you, 100%. There’s something in there, like, we were fed that, right? And even in all of the teenage angst movies, there was always some undercurrent of, you know, the damsel in distress or the falling in love. There was always that thing, right? We talked earlier about the societal pressures to find someone. Really, if you go back and look at movies in our generation when we were growing up, women didn’t have these amazing powerhouse roles. They were the romantic interest. They were sidekicks. They were funny, right? But we didn’t get that example.
Maryann: So true. And that’s changing. I talk about this in almost every podcast episode, how I think representation of women over 40 is slowly but steadily changing, and it’s so exciting. And speaking of that, I recently went back and watched a few episodes of the original Sex and the City series, because I was trying to figure out where they went wrong with the reboot. [Laughs] So I was watching a few of those episodes. And I realized, even the idea of Mr. Big was such a Gen X fantasy, right? The idea that the most unattainable, toxic person was going to end up being Prince Charming, and that all you had to do was wait. And I mean, that would never be a plotline today, I feel.
Giovanna: Oh, my god, girl. You just brought up the perfect thing. That is the exact template that we were shown for what it’s supposed to look like, right? Mr. emotionally and otherwise unavailable—because a couple times he was married, right?
Maryann: [Laughs] I’m still laughing at that couple of times he was married. Not a good sign.
Giovanna: Not a good sign. So I mean, that’s the template. Mr. Emotionally-And-Literally unavailable is the guy, right? He’s the ultimate guy. He’s in and he’s out. And there’s that drama, and there’s that “will he or won’t he,” and “can I change him?” And that whole drama around that. And it’s that forlorn, long lost love that will someday be. I cannot tell you how many times in my life that narrative messed me up. And I even broke up with someone, or they broke up with me, and I was still pining and pining because it’s like, they’ll come back, right? Because that’s what they do in the movies. They come back. And it sets us up for looking for that drama and that high emotional drive. And really, you don’t want that. If you want a sustainable relationship, a relationship with someone who has a secure attachment style, it is a secure relationship…I have to tell you that those narratives and those movies and those things have messed us up so much that sometimes in the beginning of working with women, thinking of a guy who has the secure style of attaching—who has none of that Mr. Big-ness—is boring to them. And then by the end of us working together, it’s like, oh, no, I can see why I want that. And it literally is like there’s a nervous system shift that has to happen, especially if coupled with all those movies and fantasies, you grew up in a household that had some high drama. I did. I bought my first relationship book when I was 19, because I was like, I do not want to be my parents. High conflict atmosphere all the time. In my early 30s I worked with a therapist, and she was doing this free word association, and then she got to the word love. And she goes, “love,” and I was like, “pain.” And I was like… [gasps]. Like, I slapped my hands over my mouth because I was like, I totally associate love to pain and drama. And so that’s something that I had to really reprogram in myself, to recognize that not only is that not healthy, but I actually really don’t want that.
Maryann: Wow, what self discovery. I had a friend who in her 30s was on a roller coaster relationship with this guy for eight years. And it was so heartbreaking, as her friend, to watch her go through this. And you know, finally she got out of it. But I’m sure you see a lot of this in your practice—women who are involved in these toxic relationships. How do you get them to break those patterns? That seems so difficult.
Giovanna: Oh, that’s such a good question. I mean, for me holding that space, obviously, I’m not there to give advice and I’m not there to say what to do. And it’s really a fine line between way showing and really helping them realize for themselves. If you give someone advice, if you tell them what to do and they do it, it’s not the same as them actually having the “aha” and the awareness for themselves. And so most of the time, it’s gentle guidance of awareness. And, you know, I was working with someone just recently who was in such a dynamic, and multiple conversations over months of like, OK, I’m ready, and I can see that this person is not for me. And behind the scenes, I’m going, OK, it’s gonna happen, she’s gonna break free from this person. And then ultimately, the next week, the next conversation, it was like, well, we talked and he said this, and then there was that, and…And so really my place is to ask the questions that nobody else will ask, right? It’s like, what do you think it is in you that has you staying here? Like, what is it? And sometimes, even when they come to the conclusion of like, you know, it’s because I don’t love myself enough, it’s almost like they’re still saying it as a cliche. They’re not really actually getting what that means. And so my job is to hold the space and hold the vision for what I think is possible for them. Really, I think that’s what coaches do—hold them to what we think is possible for them and hope for them, and just ask the questions that are going to get the “aha” that’s going to get the wheels turning. And eventually, with this person in particular that I’m speaking of, with enough questioning and massaging around that, within a few months she was like, I am now seeing these things. I’m seeing these patterns, right, and I actually don’t like it. And so then the job is to really help them feel empowered and strong and secure within themselves. And, you know, anyone in relationship sciences always says you can’t heal relational trauma in a vacuum, you have to heal it in the context of a healthy relationship. And sometimes that’s not the person that you’re with. But I can be that for that person, right? Like anyone, your coach or therapist, whoever you work with, could be that person that really holds that space for you and holds that line for what you actually do deserve. Right? I would say my job is to hold the flashlight on all the dark spots, all the spots we can’t see.
Maryann: Yeah, that’s great. I think it was on your Instagram that you posted something that said, “How do you know a relationship is toxic? It’s when you start sacrificing parts of yourself to try to make it work.” I thought that was so well said.
Giovanna: Yes, I have a PhD in doing that. [Laughs] A PhD in codependency. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, that is not to say that that person is toxic. But if you get into this dynamic where you are literally sacrificing pieces of yourself and really making the relationship about the other person—not that you have to make it all about you, but it should be about we. But when you start catching yourself making it all about the other person, and do they approve of me, and do they like me, and how can I mold myself to be a version of myself that will be more acceptable to them—all these little places that we we self betray—eventually that that dynamic becomes toxic. Now, can you rebound from that? Absolutely. Can you learn about codependencies and practice healthy boundaries? Absolutely. Unless you’re in a dynamic where the person is thriving off that; let’s say the person’s a narcissist of some kind, and they’re thriving off of that. Then maybe not, right? But it’s to say that the dynamic itself is toxic, because you are eventually reaching a place where you have no self identity if it’s not for how this person sees you. And that’s just just so detrimental to our self esteem.
Maryann: You also say that many women have a script or a vision of what they want this ideal person they haven’t met yet to be like, and then it can push away someone who’s less than that ideal person or that scripted person, someone who doesn’t match exactly. Is this a common issue that women face?
Giovanna: Yeah, I think this comes from one of those movies too, from a while ago. [Laughs]
Maryann: Everything does. [Laughs]
Giovanna: Right? It’s like, make a list. And some of it’s a little new agey as well, right? It’s like, make a list of the guy that you want to manifest. And trust me, I did all of that. And two things are wrong with that. One is it ends up being like this superficial list of like, I’d like him to be tall and handsome and have blue eyes and, you know, can dance salsa and has a good job. And it’s very juvenile, right? It can be very superficial and juvenile. And that’s really not a list to go on, because like you said, I mean, someone perfectly suitable for you could be in front of you, and you’re like, yeah, well, he didn’t really have those blue eyes.
Maryann: Well, first of all, anybody who says they have a type, I’m very leery of that. Like, there is no type.
Giovanna: There is no type, actually, yeah. There’s no type. So I mean, that’s the first thing. So what I actually tell my clients to do instead of that list, which is very, very, very effective—so if you’re listening to this right now, and you don’t have the person and you want the person, I’m telling you do this, and it will come—is to make a list of how you want to feel with the person. Because your body will not lie to you. The somatic feelings that happen won’t lie to you. And the reason that you know this is true is because when you’re in a room and you’re with people that are warm and welcoming, you have the sense in your body, like everything relaxes in you.
Maryann: So true. That is so true.
Giovanna: Right? You don’t feel hyped up and like, whoa. No, everything calms down. So your body knows. And you know equally when you’re in a room with someone who was like, oh, just, you know, pushing your buttons. Even if it’s so subtle, right? You have those people who have mastered the art of passive aggressiveness. And it’s almost like, I don’t know why I don’t like them, but something inside of me doesn’t feel good around them. So, your body and your sensations in your body, which is what I teach a lot of women to start trusting and tuning into, they will not lie to you. So make a new list. And the list is, I feel like this when I’m with this person. It feels easy. It feels joyful. It feels yummy. It feels safe. It feels exciting. All the feels. That’s the list that you make and you read to yourself every day. Because it’s not just reading it like you’re reading a menu. It’s reading it and actually feeling the things as you say it, because that will create a somatic reference point in your body. So if you’re dating and you’re out there, and you go out on a date with someone and they say something…Maybe they say it once and you dismiss it, maybe they say it a second time where you just get this off feeling, you’re gonna go back to that and say, this does not feel like the thing that I want to feel. So that’s the first piece I hate about that list, and I switch it around to a feelings list. And the other thing is, nobody ever talks about what they’re going to bring in that list. It becomes a Santa Claus wish list. “And I want, and I want, and I want and I want.” Well, what are you bringing? Who do you want to be in this relationship? What do you want to bring to them? You have all these lists of, he has to have a good job and blue eyes and this and that. But do you want to respect him as well? Do you want to feel respected by him? Like, there’s all these things that we don’t actually stop and ask ourselves. What am I bringing? And I remember years and years ago when a coach asked me that, I literally was like…What? [Laughs] I was like, wait…Yeah, I guess I am bringing stuff with me. What am I bringing? Because it’s almost a little bit leftover of the teenage girl that’s in you that forgets that. If you want to create this situation, it’s not about the destination, it’s who you become in the process. So are you willing to become the woman who has a guy like this? And if you’re not, then OK, that’s where to start. So yeah, that’s kind of the bone I pick with that list of things, because it gets to be too superficial. But I promise if you make the feelings list and you embody that feeling reference point within you, when you meet that person, it’s just gonna feel great. And those butterflies that we get sometimes where we’re like, hot and heavy and like, oh my god, I love this person…A lot of times, that is just your wounds activating each other. Like, we are taught to look for that. You know, Carrie’s “zsa zsa zsu,” right? “Look for the zsa zsa zhu” is what she says in Sex and the City and then in the original series, but sometimes that feeling is actually your traumas bonding together. You want your whole body and your nervous system to be like, yes! Not like, woo hoo, and like this high, right? So we sometimes also confuse that for what we want to feel. And it’s not necessarily it.
Maryann: That’s so great. I’ve never heard anyone put it that way. And I love the feeling list—that is so brilliant, and it reminds me of one of my favorite quotes. I think it was by Maya Angelou, who said something like, “You will forget what people said, you’ll forget what they did, but you will always remember how they made you feel.”
Giovanna: Absolutely, absolutely. And I think on the quest to find “the one,” right, that elusive person that’s going to be our person, we don’t check into the body, we don’t check into feelings. And me personally, this is when I ignored a lot of red flags. Because it was just like, oh, you know, it’s OK. Like, it’s OK, it’s OK. And we don’t actually trust that sensation that’s happening or that intuition that’s coming up and saying, ah, you know, I don’t know about that. And sometimes it’s OK, we get into a dating situation and the red flags are like, whatever. And maybe you only lost a few months, down the line. But, you know, the way my story goes in my book is I ended up in a really abusive, toxic dynamic because of that, and because of all this setup that I’ve just talked about. So it’s so important to learn to trust your intuition and your senses, and to 100% know that they’re not lying to you.
Maryann: Right. I love that client of yours who said she wanted to work on herself before she started dating. I mean, that takes a lot of self reflection. Do you approach it that way with all your clients? Like, let’s work on you first? And how does that go?
Giovanna: Yeah, so, I have three buckets of people. So first, it’s that woman who I said earlier was like, I’m so not ready to date. Like, please don’t help me find a person right now. But I know that I have a really bad dating history, and I’m really afraid to repeat this stuff. Can we work through what this is and kind of get me ready? And the second bucket of people that I work with are actively dating, and they need support with what’s coming up for them and their triggers, and really how to navigate through that world. And the last bucket is people that have already found someone. And by the way, for those of you listening, you don’t find the person and then all problems are solved. [Laughs]
Maryann: [Laughs] If only.
Giovanna: If only. So, I’m a student of “A Course in Miracles,” and one of my top, top mentors, Marianne Williamson, says that relationships are a laboratory, they’re a holy laboratory. So when you get the person—whoever the person is, your “one,” right—that’s what all your other stuff comes off. [Laughs] So that’s the third bucket of women I work with, sort of helping them navigate that and be successful in that dynamic. But to answer your question, I do always start with the basics. And I always start with the person. Because if that part of you is not OK, if we’re not actively healing these pieces of ourselves, then they’re always going to unconsciously run our life. Carl Jung says, until you make the unconscious conscious, it will show up in your life, and you’ll call it fate. And we can’t live our lives like that anymore. It’s not a responsible way to live. So what you just mentioned is what I call radical responsibility. We always have to bring it back to ourselves. My partner pisses me off all the time. And sometimes it’s easier to stay in the piss off, right, but the harder thing is to step back and go, OK, where is this about me? Like, that’s hard. But I do encourage that, because that’s where the real growth is. And I think that’s where the real beauty of being in a relationship is. Otherwise, what’s the point? I don’t need someone to just take out my trash. I mean, it’s lovely. But that’s not the point of being in love, right?
Maryann: Right, so true. And you talk a lot about having compassion for your inner child, like you mentioned earlier, and just healing those wounds. What are some of the most common wounds that do affect what we bring into relationships?
Giovanna: Such a good question. So for many of us, it’s really different. Like, I mean, I’ve had clients who had a Leave It to Beaver upbringing, their parents were lovely. So they’re like, I don’t know why I’m so screwed up in this department, my parents were amazing. And some of us had parents like mine, that weren’t the best role models and were not emotionally intelligent and had all this stuff going on. So some of it’s from childhood, some of it’s from early relating and relationships. A lot of it, like you mentioned earlier, is from societal beliefs and concepts that we pick up along the way. But in terms of the inner child and having compassion for her, that’s somewhere we really start off gingerly. I remember the first time someone brought me through a process to meet my inner child. Like, she had her arms crossed, and she was giving me the finger. She was like, get lost. And the reason for that is, if you think about a little child running up to you now—like, you have kids, right—if your little girl or little boy ran up to you right now, and they were like, Mommy, someone said this thing and it really upset me, would you sit down with them and hear them out and be compassionate? Or would you be like, oh, just get over it and shut up? Probably not. But that’s what we do with our inner self. That’s what we do with our deep feelings and our hurts and our pain. We’re just like, oh, just get over it. Like, it was a long time ago, shut up, right? So the first thing we need to do is really acknowledge that she wants to be seen, she wants to be heard, and she wants to be loved. And nobody can actually redo your parenting, but you as an adult can re-parent your inner child. You can actually show self compassion and all of these things. And to me, that’s the ultimate self care. Bubble baths are great, manicures are awesome, but that’s not really self care. Self care is this act of re-parenting your child within. And there’s some really simple techniques that I walk people through to start to develop that relationship. But I think where we need to start is listening to her, acknowledging that there are these little pieces of ourselves that we have maybe dismissed as adults, that weren’t acknowledged by our guardians and caregivers when we were young. But we can do that now.
Maryann: Right, and especially if you have trauma from your youth. That’s something that really needs to be addressed.
Giovanna: Absolutely, 100%. I’m not a registered psychotherapist or psychiatrist, and if there’s something that’s in those realms, I have people that I work with that I refer out to. But sometimes we take the word trauma, and we need it to mean, like, you know, I was in a war, or I was horribly abused, raped, etc. But little things can be traumas. If you think of the word trauma and you redefine it for yourself, trauma really just means an event that was overwhelming to your nervous system. I had a client that I was working with for over a year once, and we got to this pivotal point where she had this memory where she was a young child and she had this little dolly that she carried around, and it was her baby, right? She was little, and her mom ripped it out of her hands and threw it out. And the sobbing and the memory that that brought up…And it was such a cathartic moment for her, but that was a trauma, right? And so we can’t dismiss those little things. Because if we talk about Gen X again and women over 40, it’s like, we are the generation that was left to raise ourselves. Like, latchkey kids, right? Emotionally, and we had parents in dual working households—thank you, Reaganomics. So, you know, we had this going on, and so we didn’t learn to be emotional caregivers to ourselves. Trauma can be anything from that to something actually major that happened.
Maryann: Right. Wow, so much to unpack. So, tell me, Giovanna, what are people in their 40s and 50s looking for? Are they dating? Are they looking to get married? Are they just looking for companions? I went to two weddings—not one, but two—in the past five years of women over 50, and they were the most beautiful weddings I have ever seen. Like, women who had never walked down the aisle before. And you know, kind of tear jerking weddings. So just from your experience as a coach, how are you seeing these relationships play out for women?
Giovanna: That’s such a beautiful question. I mean, obviously, the answer is huge, because it varies for everyone. I mean, I’d love to take a survey of like 1000 women in that age group and just find out for myself, that’d be great research.
Maryann: [Laughs] Do it.
Giovanna: What I see is this desire to share their life with someone, right? Women at that age, they don’t need someone to take care of them financially. They’re not looking for the person to take out the trash. They’re looking for someone who, like I said earlier, can be the icing on their cake. They want to share their life with someone. It became such a cliche to say, I want to find my best friend, but it’s cliche for a reason, because part of it is true, right? They want that person who they can have that passionate, loving, you know, hot relationship with, who’s also their best friend, and someone who they can grow with. And that’s probably the peak thing. If you’re not growing together, then you’re growing apart. And that’s what they’re really looking for. I don’t think we can actually get to that person until we learn how to grow ourselves, because we can’t be expecting the other person to do all the growing. So that’s what I see coming through. But again, I would love to…Whoever’s listening, if you want to participate in that survey, let me know! [Laughs]
Maryann: [Laughs] Yeah, we have to commission a survey.
Giovanna: [Laughs] I know.
Maryann: But are there challenges that are specific to women over 40? I know we hear the complaints, right? “There’s nobody out there.” “The guys want younger women.” I mean, all that stuff. How true is all that, or is it in our women’s heads?
Giovanna: Oh, that’s so good. So, here’s the thing. This is in my opinion, this is the challenge. Part of the challenge is that we’ve been burned. We’ve been burned in the past, and we’ve found a way to live happily with ourselves. So there is this conflicting, like, desire, right? Which is like, yeah, it would be really great to have someone, but…And then I’m remembering, like, I went through this, and I went through that. And people have been divorced at that age, and there’s this reluctance to risk anything again. So some of it is it has become increasingly harder, especially if you’re not someone who wants to online date. I mean, I have a lot of people that come to see me that they’re like, I’m not interested in online dating. And like, this is the world we live in. Hello, especially in a pandemic, right? Like, where are you meeting people? Nowhere. [Laughs] And literally, at that time, somebody had to come to the door to deliver something to see somebody. So, you know, there are those challenges. And this sounds kind of sad, but what I do see a lot is the loss of belief that it could happen. And I think if you stopped believing that it could happen, or you get into this, “I’m too old,” or you get into this, “there’s no one out there, and all the good ones are taken,” you really have to examine your beliefs about relationships. I always say—and I think I posted this this morning, actually—I always tell the people that come to work with me, like, secretly, if they meet “the one,” great. If they don’t, I don’t care. I’m not married to that, right? Like, I don’t care if you meet “the one.” I want you to meet yourself, and to be in that really beautiful, healed place within yourself. That person that you meet, awesome, they’re the bonus I celebrate with you. It’s almost inevitable, if you do that work. But the primary thing that I do see a lot is like, I just think I’m going to be alone the rest of my life, so I’m going to stop trying, and I’m going to stop believing. And I think when you stop trying, and when you stop believing, you just don’t put yourself out there. And there’s some cynicism that can set in. So obviously, that’s not for everyone. But that is a big factor in what I’ve seen—sort of just giving up on it. And you’re going through the motions, and it’s kind of lukewarm, but your heart isn’t into it. That’s probably the biggest thing that I see for that age group.
Maryann: It’s a mind shift, right? Because I like to believe anything is possible at any age, and I want women to believe it, too. When I have friends that say that to me, I’m like, no, you could do anything, anything can happen. You have to be open, right? Open to the possibilities.
Giovanna: Yeah, 100%, and it’s probably the saddest thing, too. And again, I can speak to that also from personal experience, because when I brought myself through what I didn’t realize at the time was my own program, I did get to a place in the middle of that where I was in that same place. I was like, well, everything’s great. Life is good. I have this great business, I’m doing this contract here, I’m traveling the world and doing all the stuff I love, I have my family, I have my friends around. Like, I said, I don’t want to go out there. And I did, I went out there a little bit, and I was just going through the motions, I wasn’t really into it. And I knew it was because something else inside of me hadn’t shifted. There was a click that had to happen. And I felt it. Like, we talked about that somatic feeling. I felt it inside of me when I was ready. And when I was ready, that belief came back, that hope came back. That, you know what, yeah, this could be it for me. But before that, I was in this space of, like, meh, who’s out there? Just kind of very cynical about it. So I get both sides, I understand it, but you do have to believe it for it to happen.
Maryann: Right. And I do have friends who just say, I don’t necessarily need to find a relationship. I’m fine. I’m good. You know?
Giovanna: But that’s OK, too, right? The goal in life—again, we don’t want to play into that whole patriarchal belief system—is not to have a relationship. It doesn’t define who we are as women. It is a deep desire for some women, but for some it’s not. And that is equally to be honored. That’s why I always say that my job isn’t really to find you “the one.” My job is to bring you to yourself, and then you know, that’s a happy side effect.
Maryann: So, are there any tips you would offer our listeners, anyone who’s listening right now and wants to know what’s something they could do, right now, to take positive steps.
Giovanna: Well, 100% make that feelings list that we talked about, and really get into it. Like, the feelings that you want to have. Nothing on that list is going to have to do with their physical appearance—what job they have, or if they have two left feet, or hair or no hair, none of that is on the list. It’s going to be all about how you want to feel, and also equally, how you want them to feel when they’re in a relationship with you. Because again, it’s a dual thing. It takes two to tango, as they say. So that’s the first thing. And the second tip I would give everyone listening, if you really want to start to get in touch with your inner child, is to do an exercise that I call dialoguing. And dialoguing is where you just take out a journal or piece of paper and you get really quiet. You can meditate before you do this, or just get really quiet and give yourself a few minutes of deep breathing. And your intention in this dialoguing is to get in touch with this inner you, this inner child. And so the first line of dialoguing is you saying, OK, I’m here, I’m listening. What do you have to say to me today? And then you stop and you wait. You’re writing this almost like you’re writing a screenplay. Then the next line, you know, for me, would be little Giovanna, or whatever your nickname you had as a child. And you stop and listen, and you know, it might feel kind of forced or mechanical at first, but eventually you’re gonna hear something from deep within. Like, you know what, I had a really bad day today. OK, tell me about it. So you’re going back and forth with this little version of you. And it is one of the most validating things you can do for that little girl inside of you, who has been told to shut up, sit in the corner, don’t come up when you’re not necessary, like, you’re inconvenient and all those things. Really start to listen. And you know, I’m not gonna lie, when you first do this, you’re going to feel a little bit like, oh my God, I’m talking to myself, this is so weird. Stick with it. Do it for 10 minutes in the evening. I would say set a timer, because if you sit down to do this for an indefinite period of time, it’s going to feel like, oh my God, this forever. Maybe start with five minutes, then move to 10, and touch base back in. And what ends up happening after you do this for a few weeks is that this dialogue becomes part of you. So when you’re out in the world, or you’re at the office, or you’re doing something and somebody triggers you—whenever you’re triggered, it’s that little girl that’s getting triggered, right—you can quickly check in with her and say, OK, what’s going on for you? And it’s like, oh, you know what, this is reminding me of that time that little Timmy pushed me on the playground and held my pigtails and showed everybody my underwear or whatever. And it’s like, OK, well, I got you now, like, I can come in here, and I got you. So when we realize that we’re being triggered from a place of this little version of us, we can react and act in ways that are more healthy, so that adults can take over. So those are the two things I would say to do and try. And then yeah, let me know. Find me on the interwebs and let me know how it went.
Maryann: It’s so funny you use Timmy as an example. I literally had a Timmy push me on the playground when I was seven. [Laughs] And I saw him at a wedding years later, and he came up to me and he said, remember I was the little asshole bully and you punched me in the nose? And I forgot that I punched him back, but I did. [Laughed]
Giovanna: He owned it, right? [Laughs] At least he owned it. That’s funny.
Maryann: Anyway, one more question. I want to ask you, are there other worries that women over 40 have in terms of dating? Like, I’m just thinking about those completely irrational insecurities we have as we get older, especially if you haven’t been in the dating scene for a while, if you’re dipping your toes back in. I’m thinking about body image or age related issues… Are there things that you have to work through with clients about that?
Giovanna: Yeah, those things always come up. It really usually is around body stuff. And my remedy to that is always…There’s a line in Eat Pray Love the movie, but it’s probably in the book as well. I love the book so much better than the movie, but I’m referencing the movie right now, where, you know, she’s sitting and she’s talking to her girlfriend who’s like, oh my god, I can’t eat this pizza because I’ve put on this…What’s this thing called? And she’s like, a muffin top.
Maryann: [Laughs]
Giovanna: And she goes, no, I can’t eat the pizza, I can’t do it. And you know, Julia Roberts is Elizabeth Gilbert, and she says to her, like, at any time in your life when you were in a room naked with a man, have they ever kicked you out for having a little too much of this and a little too much of that?
Maryann: Right. [Laughs]
Giovanna: No, because they’re just so damn happy to be in a room naked with a woman that they don’t care. [Laughs] I kind of lean on that wisdom a lot, but that is the main thing that comes up. Oh, I’ve put on a little weight, or my boobs aren’t as perky. But you know what, ladies? The men you’re dating, their stuff’s not perky anymore either. It’s all relative. So that’s the kind of stuff that we need to get over to put ourselves out there. And yeah, but all of that like that. That body self confidence and all of that stuff, that’s just all part and parcel of you being ready to take that plunge. And sometimes you really got to get to this place. I remember when I started dating again, I’d put on like, I think 25 pounds. Or maybe it was 30. And I did that dance too, right? I’m like, oh, I don’t know, I don’t know, I don’t know. And then at a certain point, I was just like, you know what? Just screw it. It is what it is right now. It’s going out there. And ladies, they don’t care. [Laughs] Nobody cares. If you don’t care, they don’t care.
Maryann: I try to consciously stop myself when we’re talking about this stuff. Whether girls night out, dinner, lunch, whatever, it inevitably comes around to women talking about their weight or how much they put on during the holidays. We just need to stop it. We need to shut that down.
Giovanna: Don’t feed the Gremlins. Don’t feed them. [Laughs]
Maryann: Right. We’re all beautiful. We’re out here to empower and to support and uplift each other.
Giovanna: Absolutely. 100%. [Laughs]
Maryann: [Laughs] Oh my God, this was such a great conversation. Is there anything we missed? Is there anything you want our listeners to know?
Giovanna: I don’t know. It was a great conversation. I mean, I literally could talk about this stuff forever.
Maryann: I could too, actually, and I’m not even doing what you’re doing.
Giovanna: Hence the job. [Laughs] Yeah, it’s just my most fun topic to talk about, because everything is a relationship, right? Like, even your relationship to love or your relationship to relationships. Everything is comprised of a relationship. And I think ultimately, we crave connection because we really want to feel that ultimate connection. Whatever your spiritual, religious thing is, we do have this innate sense of wanting to connect, whether it’s to something bigger than ourselves or to ourselves. And we tend to project that outwardly into a person, but you really can’t be 100% happy there unless you find that first. So I just want to leave everybody with that.
Maryann: Very wise words. Everybody needs to go out and buy “Love Well: Confessions of a Lovesick Woman.” And Giovanna, tell us where else people can find you online.
Giovanna: I am mostly on Instagram, so @lovewell_coach. But equally, I’m on Facebook quite a bit. Those are probably the two places I frequent the most. You can go to my website at Giovannacapozza.com. And yeah, you could reach out to me in any of those places. Really, I take a lot of DMS on Instagram and I do most of my posting there.
Maryann: Great. Thank you so much. This was so great.
Giovanna: Yes, thank you! It was an honor to be here.
