The following is a transcript of this episode. It has been edited for clarity.
Intro: Are you or someone you know feeling depressed, rundown or deflated? Today on the More Beautiful podcast I chat with Dr. Ellen Albertson, a psychologist and author of a new book on midlife transformation about why depression is so prevalent in this stage of life. We give you some powerful strategies to help boost your mood and energy, make positive change in your life and get your groove back. And we talk about why we should view midlife as a spiritual wake up call and an opportunity to embrace your most passionate, authentic self. Welcome to More Beautiful, the podcast for women rewriting the midlife playbook. I’m Maryann LoRusso, and I invite you to join me and a guest each week as we strive for a life that’s more adventurous, more fulfilling and more beautiful than ever before.
Maryann: Hey everybody, welcome back to the More Beautiful podcast. I am thrilled to be here today with Dr. Ellen Albertson, who is a psychologist, registered dietician, nutritionist, life coach and fitness trainer, as well as the author of the recently released book Rock Your Midlife: 7 Steps to Transform Yourself and Make Your Next Chapter Your Best Chapter. Dr. Ellen, thank you so much for being here today. How are you?
Ellen: I am great, Maryann. It’s so great to be here, and it’s such an honor to be on your podcasts, which is just really ripping up the airwaves.
Maryann: Thank you so much for doing it, for being here on my little podcast. The pleasure is all mine. And before we get into the meat of our conversation, I wanted to point out that in the preface of your book, you say you wrote it as an invitation for women to transform themselves. Can you tell us what you mean by that? And was this your primary goal for writing the book?
Ellen: Yeah, my primary goal was to reach as many women as possible in midlife, because as a coach, I can only talk to a handful of people, and I really wanted a vehicle that would reach more women. And I really want to change the way that we approach and view midlife. You know, when you put midlife in Google, what comes up is the wrong side of 40, and it’s conjoined with crisis. And it is a time that is fraught with a lot of challenges and changes, but it’s an invitation to do that cocoon thing, right? To go from that caterpillar to the butterfly. And so I really wanted to give women specific steps that they could follow to transform themselves. I think there’s a lot of memoirs out there, but I felt like this fear was really missing a book that gave people things that will really help them to make the most of their second adulthood.
Maryann: I love that. And at one point in the book, you mentioned that women in midlife are at a greater risk of depression than at any other time. Tell us why, from your perspective as a psychologist, is this the case.
Ellen: Yeah, and just to quote the research, women at midlife, about 12% of us have depression. And so we have the highest rate of any group for age and gender. And I think there’s a couple reasons for it. In terms of environmental stuff, just what’s happening around us is that, you know, we might have kids and a needy spouse, and we might be taking care of parents who are really in that sandwich generation. Plus, we have work, and like during COVID, I worked with so many women who were just exhausted, like really in that burnout. I mean burnout, now, the World Health Organization views it as a serious thing. We’re doing so much, we’re burning the candle at like four ends, not even two ends. So I think that, you know, depression, in some ways—and I talked about this in the book—it’s kind of a giant stop sign. For some women, it’s the only way that forces them to stop, it’s like your body, your brain, saying, I can’t do this anymore. I’m in overload, and I really need to duck and cover. So there’s just a lot going on. And then physiologically, there’s also a lot of changes. So most women will go through menopause. And when you’re going through menopause it’s a dip in estrogen, and those dips in the hormone estrogen are actually associated with, you know, a greater risk of having depression. So there might be something going on chemically. And in addition, all of those pesky symptoms of menopause make you feel kind of tired and, you know, down. I mean, depression is like you’re pressed down. So if you’re not sleeping well, if you’re feeling ill, irritable, fatigued, all those kinds of things can really contribute to depression…and mental health challenges. But, you know, I’m saying this, it’s good to get the word out there. I think we’re talking more about menopause, which is so important. I think, you know, it’s a real issue. I had just seen a report in England that 90,000 women gave their pink slips because of menopause. They were just like, I cannot deal with work. And it is associated with 100—and again in the UK—$150 billion worth of productivity loss. So you know, women are going to work, they’re feeling crappy. And you know, if you are going through menopause, there is a lot you can do. Everything from talking to your physician about getting some hormone replacement therapy or doing something natural. Certainly diet is super important. Exercise, making sure you sleep, taking time for self care, all of those things can really help you to get through menopause in one piece and really reduce your risk of depression. But people need to be talking to their boss, asking for support. If they’re having bad days, you know that you can get some kind of sick leave. So we really need to be embracing this time, but also, you know, having compensation, right? When kids go to college, it’s like, if you’ve got some kind of disability, you get like a written up so that if something happens, if you’re going through some kind of issue, you know, there are measures that you can take. But I think we need to start looking at menopause as that kind of thing, too.
Maryann: I agree. And it’s interesting you say like, you know, Women’s Health has global implications, right? Because there’s this effect. But you know, in terms of workplace knowledge of menopause and the symptoms, I find it interesting that in the UK, they do that sort of training. They have specialists who go into corporations and companies and train people on how to deal with employees who are going through these changes, and I just kind of wish America would get up to speed in some ways.
Ellen: Yeah, it’s interesting. They seem to be ahead of the curve in terms of menopause, and I’ve been sort of following the people who’ve talked about menopause on Instagram, it seems like the UK is ahead of the time. I think I also just read that their national health insurance is also going to pay for hormone replacement therapy. So that’s kind of interesting.
Maryann: Yeah, we should follow suit. But Dr. Ellen, in terms of, you know, depression in the holidays, is it worse this time of year? And if so, what are the triggers that make it worse?
Ellen: Yeah, I think for me personally, and just working with my clients, I think kids growing up, too…I think when kids are little, toddlers or like elementary school kids, it was sort of wonder with Christmas, right? It’s all about your kids. And then all of a sudden, they’re teenagers, or they’re college students, or they’re grown ups. And like, they’re in for a hot minute, and then they’re off to see their friends and do other things. And there’s this longing for that connection. Or maybe you’ve lost, you know, a parent or an aunt or dear friends, and most of us at midlife have lost people. I have lost, you know, dear friends my age, and certainly, you know, older people that I knew. And so there is this longing. It brings up these thoughts of people that we’ve lost in our life. Yeah, I think it can be a little bit harder, and it just adds more things that you have to do this time of year. So if you’re listening to this during the holidays, my advice is to do a little less, rest more. I mean, for me this year, I’m really relishing spending time with people and giving people gifts of donating to charities that they are interested in, or I love to make people food, trying to get a little bit away from the whole materialism. There’s all of these expectations around it, and I think that COVID has made things very confusing.
Maryann: Yeah, I also think COVID has helped us kind of regroup and figure out what’s important, don’t you think?
Ellen: Absolutely. Yeah, I think when you have a long period of time where you can’t hug the people that you love, you realize what is truly important. I think whenever we step back—like right now, I’m in the process of reviewing 2021, looking at 2022—it’s kind of surprising me what truly puts a smile on my face and what’s truly happy. So often, we are climbing up this ladder of success, but it’s against the wrong building. It’s not the building that’s going to make us really happy. We realize the things that make us happy are all of these small, but really large moments, like connecting with the people that we love, being healthy, all of these things.
Maryann: Yeah, speaking of happiness, you mentioned in your book The Happiness Curve, which a lot of us have heard about. Can you tell us more about that curve and what it means for women in midlife?
Ellen: Yes. So the happiness curve actually shows that across 132 countries, happiness and well being dips at age 47.2. It’s a little different depending on the country, but it’s around age 47. And there’s a lot of reasons for this. I think, you know, again, at midlife, we’re feeling like there’s less time in front of us than behind us, right? So we feel like there’s a sense of running out of time, there’s a sense of, kind of, we haven’t fulfilled all of our dreams and we might not be able to do it. So there’s a sense of like, maybe I’m not going to do all of these things that I felt like I always really wanted to do. So we have to sort of regroup. So that’s kind of the bad news, is that there is this dip in…and again with women, certainly that dip with menopause and empty nest, and there’s a higher probability of divorce around this period as well. So a lot of things going on. But then what happens is we regroup again, we step back and really question who we are, what we want, what truly makes us happy. And then we can start taking steps to make meaningful changes in our lives so that we do feel happier in the second half of our life. I always think about, you know, if you’re in your 40s, 50s, you get another 2, 3, 4 decades. I mean, I’m planning to make it to 100.
Maryann: Good for you, me too.
Ellen: So you can take all of those things, all the lessons that you learned, and then you can apply them to the second half of your life and really make it the best time of your life.
Maryann: So nice. Yeah, you pointed out earlier that hormonal shifts also play into all of this, into this perfect storm of what’s happening to us in midlife. And you say that this phase can trigger a slew of psychological and physiological changes that make life both interesting and tumultuous, right? Can you elaborate on this?
Ellen: Yeah, you feel like you’re on the merry go round. So you know, you might have periods of, you know, the highness and lowness. I think, in terms of making it exciting, is just sort of step back and see that you’re growing and changing. You know, when our daughters go through adolescence, it’s like this kind of big deal. Wow, you’ve reached womanhood. And I think that there’s this wonderful, creative opportunity to say I’m leaving this period of maybe having to worry about my kids, and I’ve got more time on my hands. And what am I going to do to fill this time? I think that was another piece of COVID, all of a sudden we couldn’t be so busy, we couldn’t be running everywhere. And a lot of people took up new things, they learned something new, they, you know, maybe spent more time doing things that are quiet, or journaling. So I think it can be, again, a really creative, interesting period of time. Emptiness is an opportunity. Confusion, difficulties are opportunities to create something new. It can be a very exciting time as well.
Maryann: Yeah. And in the book, you offer strategies for overcoming those difficult aspects of midlife and getting to the good stuff, right? Which is finding your passion and your purpose. I would love it if we could go through some of those strategies for our listeners. Let’s start with your suggestion that women befriend themselves and practice self compassion. I love that. How do we go about doing this?
Ellen: Essentially, you treat yourself the way you would a good friend. So if you think about it for a moment, imagine for a moment that you have a good friend, and she has gone through some kind of difficulties in her life. So maybe she’s gotten into a car accident, had a health crisis, an issue at work, an issue with the spouse. How do you respond? Let’s take a moment and think about it, if you’re listening. And now think about yourself. You’ve just gone through a difficulty in your life. Health crisis, difficulty with the spouse or at work, how do you respond to yourself? And nine times out of 10, when I asked this question, what women say is, my gosh, my friend, I would just go over there and make her dinner and give her a hug and cheer her up, take her out to the movies. Be, you know, a shoulder to cry on. And what do we do for ourselves? Just plow forward. It’s like, either we say, oh my god, I’m so stupid, or, why is this happening to me, I can’t believe this.
Maryann: We beat ourselves up.
Ellen: We do. We totally beat ourselves up. So the idea is to start treating yourself like a good friend. So when something difficult happens, rather than plowing forward, you first notice this idea called common humanity, which says that, you know, suffering is part of life. Everybody goes through stresses and struggles, we all suffer. Then you don’t feel so alone. You don’t feel that it is abnormal. You’re kind to yourself rather than critical. So rather than beating yourself up and saying, why is this happening to me, you know, I shouldn’t have let this happen, you say OK, I’m really…this is, you know, I made a mistake, but it’s going to be OK, I’ll get through this. And then you’re mindful, and you ask yourself, what do I really need right now? And before we go into fix it mode, maybe we need to like, just relax, listen to some music, go for a walk, talk to a coach or a therapist or a friend, or cry. But self compassion is really all about saying, you know, if this happened to a friend of mine, what would I do? And that’s a really good way to sort of extend it, because we don’t really know how to do it. But if we think about, OK, this just happened to my best friend, what would I do and say to her, or if I had a wise friend, how would they treat me, putting yourself in someone else’s shoes, it’s a great way to start. It’s really the how of self love, and the research is profound. There’s over 3,000 research articles on self compassion, including mine on self compassion and body image. And the research really shows that practicing self compassion regularly, not only do you increase your self compassion muscle, but you reduce stress, depression and anxiety. Sort of the low end gets better, and the high end—optimism, resilience and well being—gets stronger as well. So it works on both ends of the spectrum.
Maryann: That’s great. Next up is one that you tie into combating midlife fatigue, which many of us experience. You say taking care of yourself physically and practicing radical self care is important. Why is that?
Ellen: Well, if you don’t take care of yourself, you’re not going to have the energy to enjoy your life to do things for other people, to finish those projects and things that are meaningful to you. And also, it’s important if you want to enjoy the second adulthood. You’ve got to stay healthy. You don’t want to spend your second adulthood having to deal with doctors and having chronic diseases. And we know that 80% of most diseases are due to lifestyle, and those lifestyle steps really have a big impact on your energy. So first of all, diet. So I’ve been a dietitian for almost 30 years, and I wish that there was something radical to say, but it truly is, eat more whole foods and plants. So eat more plants, don’t eat anything your grandmother wouldn’t have eaten, so don’t eat a lot of things with additives. Get natural foods that aren’t processed, and eat until you’re satisfied, not stuffed. You know, we certainly know that overdoing it with what we’re eating has a big impact on our health and on our energy. So you are what you eat. And so if you eat a healthy, vibrant diet filled with lots of phytochemicals from plants, you’re going to have more energy. So that’s number one. Number two is movement. You know, you need to move your body every day. And particularly in midlife, we need to do strength training, because we lose three to eight percent of our muscle mass a decade.
Maryann: That’s a bummer, isn’t it?
Ellen: That is a bummer, but if you do strength training, it’s only like 2%. I think so often, we blame things on aging or on menopause. But there’s so much we can do. That whole food plant based diet is also great for menopausal symptoms, because it contains plant chemicals and fiber that actually help to reduce things like hot flashes. It’s really important to rest, too. At, you know, midlife, we don’t have quite the energy that we might have had in our 20s and 30s. And to understand this and to understand, you know, prioritizing what’s truly important in your life, making sure you take time to sleep and to rest. And certainly mindset is very important in terms of energy levels. You know, if we’re always feeling negative and experiencing a lot of difficult emotions, not taking care of our emotions and getting our needs met, that can be very draining as well. So there are lots of things that you can do to manage your energy levels. And you know, my big advice is to do it out of self love, not self loathing. I think we really need to change this in terms of the way we’re looking at the New Year, of how we re-approach wellness. So often we approach it as, I’ve been so bad, right? It was Christmas, I drank all the eggnog, you know, I’ve been partying, drinking, staying up late, now it’s time to beat myself up. That really doesn’t work. We think we need the self critic on our back to get us to change our behavior, but the research shows that criticizing yourself actually undermines motivation. It’s the same as when you criticize someone else.
Maryann: Makes sense. I was gonna say I can understand why you have these multitude of strategies, because you can’t really incorporate the fitness without having the self compassion and the self love. It kind of all ties in.
Ellen: Yeah, if you’re doing it because you hate yourself, it’s not going to last very long. But before our conversation, I went for a lovely walk, you know, with my dog, and it was a beautiful day and the sun was shining. Do these things because you love yourself. I don’t know where we went wrong about this idea that eating healthy food and moving our bodies is somehow punishment.
Maryann: Totally agree. I think it’s a gift you give yourself.
Ellen: It is, and it can be totally enjoyable. I like kale. So I mean, you can make it fun. But you know, it is so true that women at midlife are complaining of fatigue. And I think also, take some things off your plate. And this goes into my step six about women. We’re always feeling like we have to be the good girl, that we have to take care of everybody. You’ve got to take some things off your plate. So if you’re listening to this in the holidays, just say, you know, maybe you don’t have to do that thing. I was talking to my mother the other day who is almost 90, and she was like, you know what, I’m not gonna make dinner today because I want to go for a swim. We’re just gonna have something quick, simple and easy.
Maryann: I hope by the age 90, you’re entitled to not making dinner.
Ellen: [Laughs] Yeah, but we do, right? We’re feeling like we have to do all the things. I know in my 40s, I was always like, fancy meals out all the time, you know, totally worried about the kids, doing everything, and I wish that I had done a little bit less for others and more for myself. I think that I would have had more energy to be there for people, and in the right way. Something I tell parents too is, ask your kids what’s important to them. I tell all my clients that, especially clients who have teens who are busy, you know, maybe they don’t…
Maryann: Oh, that’s a good tip. I love that. Ask your kids to tell you.
Ellen: Ask your kids. Maybe they don’t care if you chair the PTO bake sale, but they really want you at that lacrosse game. So have a conversation with your kids. You know, maybe it’s really important for them to sit down and watch a movie with you once a week, or to spend quality time. It’s different for different kids. It might surprise you, but you don’t have to do all the things.
Maryann: That’s such a good tip, I love that. The next strategy is my favorite, though. You say taking care of yourself spiritually is key. You say all of us should create a spiritual practice, and that this time of life is a spiritual wake up call. You also write in your book that, I quote, “When you embrace your unique spiritual gifts and courageously show up as your true authentic self, it becomes easier for others to find you and for you to create a life that is aligned with your soul.” I love that. Can you give us an example of how that has played out in your life or might play out in someone else’s?
Ellen: Yeah, well, the way that that works is we are, you know, it’s the law of attraction. So like attracts like. I mean, how did we meet, right? Just like, how are we meeting all of these amazing women virtually on Instagram. It’s that we’re putting our energy out there, and we’re connecting with people. I love when I look on Instagram and people are actually meeting face to face as well, which is really amazing. So certainly, virtually I have met incredible women who resonate with my message. I want to help them, I learn so much from them, the people certainly who are attracted to my coaching practice. And certainly, where I’m living, who I’m living with now. So four years ago, I had just sort of went through divorce, and was doing this and had that really chrysalis cocoon, I’ve lived everything in my book. And I was doing something called destination vibration, which is a practice that I share in the book where basically you visualize a time in your life where you were engaged in a motion that was really satisfying, that felt really good. Maybe it was just being on the beach. For me, it was dancing. I’ve been dancing since I was five, and I love to dance. When I’m dancing, it means that I’m joyful and life is going well. It’s a great metaphor for me.
Maryann: Yes, I’m gonna point out that you’re dancing in some of your Instagram videos, which I love.
Ellen: Oh, I should do more of those. I’m a little shy. But anyway, so we had just gone through lockdown, and I was, like a lot of us, in this sort of transitional, stuck place. But I took this transformational course, and we did this thing called destination vibration where every day before I went to bed and woke up in the morning, I visualized myself dancing. So I saw myself at like five or six, seven or eight. You know, in my 20s, I went to dance camp and like dance gatherings and swing dance. And I feel like I attracted Kenny, my fiance, and I live in this beautiful place on Lake Champlain in Vermont. And it just felt like the universe was like, this is really what you need. It was never when I was in my marriage, and I was just thinking, this is not working. I don’t like this path that I’m on, I need to get off of it. I remember watching Julia Roberts in Eat, Pray Love. That last part, the love part. And I was like, I want to feel that way again. And I wasn’t feeling it. And you know, doing this kind of idea of visualizing the way that you want to feel, whether you’re looking for romance or a new way of living. And I feel like I attracted, you know, Kenny, who had this beautiful estate on 10 acres. I talked about it in my book. And I’m happier than I could have even imagined. And I always felt like I would maybe meet somebody new and things would unfold. And I’ve found a whole community out here, too. So the universe has all of this waiting for you, but you have to take the first steps.
Maryann: Right. That’s beautiful, Ellen. Did Kenny meet you when you were dancing?
Ellen: [Laughs] I wish. No, I would say we actually met on spiritual singles. On a dating site. But he’s an incredible dancer, so that is something that we really enjoy doing together. I know it’s hard to find a man who dances and who is spiritual. He’s a Kundalini teacher, and he’s a master gardener. So he’s quite an incredible individual.
Maryann: I love this. I’m so happy that you’re happy, that’s amazing. So all of this kind of ties into when you talk about raising your energetic vibration, right? Because I tell that to people and they’re like, what is that? How do you do that? I mean, is it all the stuff you’ve already mentioned? Is there more to that? How do we go about doing that? And what does that even mean?
Ellen: That’s a wonderful question. Well, first of all, consider that you are an energetic being. So if people are scratching their heads and are like, I’m not energy, I’m matter, think about how every cell in your body came from the sun. So either you ate plants, which are made of sunlight, or you ate animals that ate the plants. So we literally are made of sunlight. The sun is an energetic body, so we are energetic beings. You can think about Einstein’s equation E equals MC squared, which is really showing that matter and energy are constantly going back and forth. If you take an electron microscope and you drill down to the like subatomic level of matter, you see its energy, its particles, moving constantly. So that’s the first thing to realize, that you actually are an energetic being. Things show up because they have different vibrations. So a tree has a different vibration than a cat or a lamp or a rock. Everything is made of energy. And so to understand that we’re energetic beings. And so thinking about yourself—I’m also a Reiki Master, so thinking about energy on a number of different levels. So there is a physical level, so we can see physical bodies. There is the mental level, so our thoughts are energy as well. Our thoughts carry an energetic vibration. Our thoughts are things that are kind of like the scaffolding, the blueprint, that helps to attract what we want. Thinking about everything that’s ever been created, someone had a thought. Like the cellphone we carry around. I remember watching Star Trek, and people would have these things, or even the screens that we look at, remember the Jetsons where people would talk to each other on screens. People had to think up this idea first. So everything that’s ever been created, that man has made, was a thought. Everything you’ve created, you’ve thought up, and authored your whole life. Then we have emotions, which is another energetic level. So emotions are basically magnetizing what it is that we want, and that kind of goes back to what I talked about with the destination vibration. So if we have lots of positive emotions, then we are going to attract more positive things if we’re radiating joy and gratitude, which is a great vibration. Because you can’t be sort of the lower vibration, sadness, sad, angry, afraid and grateful at the same time. So if you want to raise your vibe, you can sort of reach for a neutral vibe or reach for gratitude, and that will automatically shift your vibe because your emotions are magnetizing what you want. And it’s not just woo. There’s a woman named Barbara Fredrickson, a psychologist who’s very well known, who has this broaden and build theory. And her theory says that when we have more positive emotions to negative emotions, we broaden and build our awareness. We attract more things, more positive things come our way. And it’s really true. If you’ve got your head down and you’re worrying all the time and you’re looking around for what could go wrong, well, that’s what you’re gonna see.
Maryann: Right, I believe it. Ellen, I don’t know if you could hear this, or if listeners heard it, but while you were discussing vibration, I think we just had an earthquake here in San Francisco. And this print behind me was rumbling. [Laughs] Shaking.
Ellen: Oh, wow. That’s…
Maryann: Yeah, it lasted like a good minute.
Ellen: That is crazy.
Maryann: It was crazy. I was trying to keep a straight face.
Ellen: Wow, no, that is interesting. I hope that things are okay.
Maryann: Well, I mean, just as you were saying the word vibration, it started sort of vibrating.
Ellen: Interesting. So maybe it’s the universe punctuating that.
Maryann: I think so.
Ellen: So then we, you know, get to the spiritual level, connecting with however you view spirit. And we all view it differently. I know I used to sort of envy people who…I don’t hear angels and see things. But spiritual is up to us in different ways. For me, my spiritual connection is very much rooted in the physical matter. I might hear a song, or…I had a dear friend who passed who collected owls, so I’ll see an owl and it’s like she’s on my shoulder talking to me. But we all perceive the spiritual realm in different ways. We all have a different perspective on God, consciousness, spirit, whatever it is you want to call it. And then we can think about our vibe as well in terms of the chakra system, which is the seven invisible disks that are rotating very rapidly. They’re not actually physical, but they are energy vortexes, which have a different vibration. And when they’re unbalanced, it affects us on different levels.
Maryann: Yeah, I’m currently reading up on chakras. I have a gigantic book, and it’s fascinating.
Ellen: What book are you reading?
Maryann: It’s kind of an intro to chakras, but it’s, you know, like a huge paperback, it’s really hefty. I can’t remember the exact title. I can DM you later.
Ellen: Yeah, it’s a fascinating area of study. So it is interesting to think about ourselves as energetic beings rather than just physical beings. I think it just makes life so much more interesting to see that we’re also spirit. That’s something I talk about in my book, that there’s nothing that we have to do to be spiritual, that we are souls having a human experience. And that part of our job, and I think we wake up spiritually more often in midlife, is it’s our job to take off all of these blinders or lampshades that really keep our light from shining. And a lot of that also…In my practice and working with women for three decades, there’s a sense of not enoughness, right? We’re always like carrying this backpack of, I’m not smart enough, I’m not pretty enough, I’m not accomplished enough, I’m not wealthy enough, you know? And I’m here to say you are enough exactly as you are. The fact that you exist and that you’re breathing is phenomenal, that you are able to experience life. We are consciousness experiencing itself, we are made of starlight, we are absolutely amazing. And you need to take in the amazingness of the fact that we even exist.
Maryann: I find that so comforting, also, just to think that you’re a part of something much bigger, beyond yourself. It takes you out of your ego, which is another benefit, I think, to being in midlife. I know a lot of my friends and I feel like we’re less self involved and more loving and more…I don’t know, just feeling like you’re part of something much greater than yourself.
Ellen: Yeah, I think that if we get to this place where we start to realize that I’m not satisfied, part of it is making changes, but it’s often making these changes on the inside. When I work with clients, it’s so exciting, that things don’t always change on the outside that rapidly, but they’ve changed on the inside. And that can happen really quickly. Sometimes it takes a while for the physical stuff to shift. That you need to make inner changes first.
Maryann: One thing you talk about is communicating more effectively, communicating your needs. Is this something that women still grapple with in midlife?
Ellen: We are, I think, grappling with it because we, again, have that people pleaser. And I say this a lot. We were talking about chakras a moment ago, and I have gotten so many clients who have throat issues because their fourth chakra, which is the throat chakra, is totally blocked because they are, like, shushing themselves, not speaking their truth. They’ve been taught that they shouldn’t make waves. And that was my life, to a large extent. I was very conflict averse. I didn’t want to tell people when something was bothering me, or ask to get my needs met. So part of the issue is it’s time for us to, like, put on our big girl panties and stand up and ask for what our needs are. And I give people a very specific tool called nonviolent communication. It’s something that was developed by Marshall Rosenberg, which is just a matter of observing what’s going on, telling people how it makes you feel, asking what you need, and then making a request. And so this is something that’s a really powerful technique. I also recommend that people let that good girl go. A lot of, if not most of my clients have a good girl and a people pleaser. They’re always putting others first and always putting their needs second. Say no to others and yes to yourself.
Maryann: Just say goodbye to the good girl. Let her go.
Ellen: Yeah, absolutely. And then also setting some boundaries too, and creating what I call a personal Bill of Rights of what you feel like you’re entitled to, and thinking about what’s going to happen if somebody crosses the line. What are the consequences going to be if somebody, you know, doesn’t keep their word or somebody lets you down.
Maryann: Right. What I found so interesting…In the book, you wrote about the final straw in your marriage, a life altering scene in the kitchen with a chicken, and what made you walk away. You wrote that passage so beautifully, Ellen, and I could feel the pain and your decision to leave, but also your resolve, because you just had enough, right? Can you tell us how you finally brought yourself to make a life changing decision like that?
Ellen: Yeah, I think it had been brewing for a long time, but I knew that once I crossed the line, there would be no going back. And I knew that once I was gone, that that family unit just would not happen anymore. And it was very painful to break up my family. So that was sort of what kept me from doing it for a long time. Plus fear, fear of like, could I be on my own, I’ve been in a marriage for almost 25 years. And fear of, you know, would I meet somebody else, and what would happen. Sort of this fear of the unknown. Our brain isn’t interested in us being happy, our brain is only interested in keeping us safe. So my marriage was safe. I was comfortably uncomfortable, but I really knew that I was growing in a different direction, and my ex was not growing in a way that was in alignment with where I was at anymore. And I think, I don’t know, the chicken was just…something snapped. I use a lot of Tiger metaphors, because tigers are my power animal. So I felt like a caged tiger in my marriage, where I did not have the freedom to be myself, to speak my mind. I was criticized a lot. I was very unhappy. And so that chicken, well, basically we actually made two huge butterfly chickens. They were cooking, we were starving. We were watching a movie, my son, my ex husband and myself. And I took them out of the oven. He came in to carve them—that’s like the guy thing, to carve up the birds—and he was carving them. I was really hungry, so I reached over and I started nibbling on a neck, because I was starving. And he screamed at me, and I gave him the F bomb. I just exploded. Years of anger and frustration came bubbling to the surface and I walked out the door.
Maryann: That’s a scene in a movie, if they ever do your life story.
Ellen: Yeah. Julia Roberts, right?
Maryann: Yeah. Julia Roberts lives in my neighborhood now, so I can track her down for you.
Ellen: Wow. You know, it’d be great for her to play me. That would be wonderful. It’s every writer’s dream to have Julia Roberts play you in a movie.
Maryann: Right? Not too shabby. Speaking of fear, though, you also wrote that if you are afraid and uncertain about something, you’re moving in the right direction. Tell us more about that.
Ellen: Yeah, fear is really there to protect you. Fear is the primitive part of our brain. It’s really our lizard brain. So we have both an amygdala, which is at the base of our spine, and we also have something called the default mode network that runs down the middle of our brain that’s constantly scanning the environment for what could go wrong and for self definition. So those parts of ourselves really put a damper on personal growth. Because if you’re going to, you know, if you’re going to step it up at midlife, you’re going to make some mistakes. You might make some people angry, things might go wrong, shit’s gonna happen, right? So, you know, we have to face our fears. So if you’re facing your fear, you definitely are going in the right direction. You know, it’s a cliche, but everything you want is really on the other side of fear. I was really afraid to leave my marriage. I was a little afraid to come out with this book. But I knew that I needed to put in a lot of my personal story so that people could trust me, identify with me, and you know, it’s been a hit because a lot of people have said, well, I identify with what you’re going through, that’s really hit home for me. So those things that you’re scared of doing are really the things that are going to bring you the joy, the exhilaration, the sense of accomplishment that you want in your life. And I give people a lot of different techniques that you can use to help you to move past your fears.
Maryann: And the self growth, right? Without conquering your fears or moving through them, you’re not going to grow.
Ellen: Absolutely, yeah. We don’t grow unless we continue to move forward and move past our fears. Imagine if all the people who created different things were afraid of failing. Thinking about, you know, Edison and the light bulb, we’ve heard it before, but it took him like 1,000 tries to come to find tungsten for his filament for the light bulb. So you have to reframe failure as just a stepping stone on the road towards success. And also going back to that spiritual component, my seventh step, which is enlightenment, is just to know that life is happening for you, not to you. And when I get afraid or even a little frustrated about COVID related things, it’s just like, you know, the universe is in charge. As long as I’m on my path…You know that you’re on your path when you are in integrity, when you’re being true to yourself, which is really that first step of authenticity. If you’re being authentic, if you’re being true to yourself, if you are doing what you’re meant to be doing here, then you’re on your path. And just, you know, face the fear. See if you can turn that fear into exhilaration, into excitement, because anxiety and fear and excitement and exhilaration are very similar physiologically. So if you can reframe it and just go, this is exciting, like…
Maryann: I like that. If there are women out there who are feeling anxious, feeling depressed, feeling…How do they know if it’s just normal midlife stuff, hormones, something that they can just, you know, ride out, or something else? You know, something more ominous, that they should talk to a doctor about?
Ellen: Well, depression—and I talked about it in the book—has a very specific flavor. So if you have lost interest in things that you used to be interested in, if you find that you’re, you know, really having trouble getting up in the morning, and if it continues for a lengthy period of time, it’s not kind of like oh, it’s cloudy today, I feel kind of blue, but you feel blue all the time and it goes on for several weeks, it’s always a good idea to seek out help. I don’t think there’s any harm in talking to your physician, or perhaps seeing a therapist if you feel like you’re struggling. And I feel like this time of life, it’s a good idea to get some help if you feel like that’s going to be beneficial, whether that’s a coach, whether that’s a therapist. So I think how to know if it’s something more is if it’s getting in the way of your daily activities, if it’s getting in the way of your relationships, if you’re starting to have trouble functioning well, and if it’s continuing for a length of time and you don’t have patches where you’re feeling OK, it’s a good idea to to really investigate it. And fortunately, there’s lots and lots of resources out there for midlife women, now.
Maryann: That’s great. Ellen, any other strategies you can think of that women can employ to just live their best lives right now?
Ellen: I would say empowerment is important, too. That’s constantly stepping out of your comfort zone. So if you’re feeling kind of blue, and you feel like you’ve kind of lost your zest in life, you might be a little comfortably uncomfortable. You know, you’re just in your comfort zone. And we have to be stepping out. Like you’ve done this podcast, right? It’s like, OK, and think about all the wonderful people that you’re meeting, the people that you’re helping. There are so many things that we can be doing in the world. So if you’re feeling really stuck, I would say grab the book. I actually have 21 ways to get unstuck, to start to get unstuck. Know that you’re not alone. I think that’s a really key point in the book, it’s a key point, you know, even on social media, that there are organizations and groups, that you don’t have to feel alone. It’s at the common humanity element that we’re all going through different things in our life, particularly women in midlife, we’re talking about it.
Maryann: Right, that is true. When you get depressed you’re in a slump, you tend to just want to be alone, spend time by yourself. But in reality, it helps sometimes to seek a friend, right? To pick up the phone and call someone.
Ellen: Yeah, and I would say one final thing, too, is that when you get to the end of your life, so you’re when you’re in your 80s and you’re looking back at this moment in time at this point in your life, what do you want your life to have stood for? Spend some time, particularly as we are heading into the new year, thinking about what are my core values? And then ask yourself if you’re living in accordance with your core values, those things that are truly important. Like for me, health and wellness is super important. Spirituality is important, compassion, making a difference in the world. And you know, every day I can get to the end of my day and say, yeah, I lived according to those values. I moved forward in a way that was in alignment with my soul.
Maryann: Do you believe in having a life mission statement?
Ellen: Having a life mission is great. That’s a wonderful thing to do. And I actually give an exercise in the book where you can actually write out sort of a mantra or an intention utilizing those core values. That’s good for guidance. We all need our North Star.
Maryann: We do. Well, I can’t thank you enough for doing this today, and for enlightening so many people out there. You are a true wonder and I appreciate you so much.
Ellen: Well, thank you so much. Thank you for doing your podcast and having me on it, and thank you everyone who has listened today. I hope that you have gotten some wisdom from it and that you will rock your midlife.
Maryann: Yeah, and go buy Dr. Ellen’s book, it’s phenomenal. And everybody, have a happy holiday. Enjoy!
